Notes on Poe from the combine...

I agree.... we do need another ILB and this too many starters on the DL stuff is crazy to me. First off come training camp we only really have one solid accomplished starter and that's Keisel. Hood, please, to me he's a back-up caliber player at this point. Hampton, with his third torn acl happening in the playoffs I doubt he's back by camp, he may even end up on the pup list just like Mendy. Heyward has more upside than Hood but is still raw and unproven.

We need Poe more than any other player and that includes Decastro. As good as Decastro is and as bad as our OL has been we at least have servicable players there. Our Defense starts on the Line. With no top quality guys there the LBers will struggle and become in-effective putting our DBs at risk. Poe is a plug-in and play guy from day one. Move Heyward over to Hoods spot and you have your DL- Hood and McLendon as rotating back-ups.

Snack may be right on one thing, Poe's stock is rising and he's probably gone by # 24.

Cajun-

 

i take that back, if hampton stays, 4 first round picks and a highly paid starter on the d-line. i don't think so.

 

Oy, just wrote a long response and then lost it...

Basically I said that I have no problem with Poe or taking a NT, and I like depth, but it's hard for me to watch us stack one position 3 deep while other positions (OL, ILB) go neglected and then wither away and die. It's sounding like we'll keep Hampton for the year. Keisel, Hampton, Hood, Heyward, Poe -- that's 5 guys, and in the nickel we'll only have two on the field (could be most of the game, depending). Rotating sounds nice, but we are not the Giants. We don't do that. In 2010 Hood proved he could play full time, and yet he barely saw the field once Aaron Smith returned in 2011. 4 or 5 plays isn't much of a rotation if you ask me.

I know you can draft a position before you need it, but it's not like you should just ignore positions you need because you need it. That would be foolish. We have positions we need now. There is no starting LG on the roster, and no one that could even conceivably fill in adequately. No one on the horizon. Same with ILB, since the team doesn't seem to think much of Sylvester there. RG is still a question mark at best. We have no depth at tackle, where one starter will be returning after basically a 2 year absence, and the other will be playing on the left side for the first time in the pros.

If Poe is going to be as good as or better than Ngata and is still available when we pick (both HUGE ifs), then he's hard to pass up. And depending on who is available, I could support that. But I hate when people drool over the prospect of one AMAZING group of players at the expense of other needed positions (Colts repeatedly drafting skill guys, Lions taking Fairley when they had needs everywhere).[/quote:1owt0mhv]

I agree we have other needs, but I really am not interested in going OG in round 1 because it's a very deep position and I'm not real crazy about Cordy Glenn. You're not going to see a NT of the caliber of the Guards in rounds 2 and 3.

ILB is somewhat weak, but I think it's easier to find one later than NT. That being said I'd be happy with Hightower or Poe in the first.

 

Poe is this year's Jason Pierre Paul in terms of the combine showing. I think he's now a top 15 prospect.

 

Heyward is raw and unproven but Poe is plug and play? Poe is more raw than Heyward was before his rookie season.

I do agree though. Our OL has been serviceable and DL is our #1 need.

 

I beleive he is the real deal, somebody is going to get a good football player.
If we can't get Decastro then this would be a good choice.

 

Yes snack,poe is a plug-n-play NT, He is bigger,faster,quicker,stronger than Suh or any other DL in recent memory.He's faster than some of this years LBers and is the Strongest Player @ the combine. Wait, Cody was bigger,by 10-20 lbs of lard. Poe has played EVERY position across the DL in college and he had zero talent around him. He has been projected to play the zero,1,3,5-technique in the NFL meaning ANY team regardless of defensive scheme/ 3-4 or 4-3, can use him. You're saying he's more raw than Heyward, HHmmmm, if you don't think he can't handle the zero-tech for us coming out of training camp... never mind

Cajun-

 

I never said anything negative about Poe, EVER. The closest thing is my saying that I'd prefer help at another position. I never said he wasn't plug-and-play, and I never said he couldn't start for us as a rookie. I was calling you out for saying/implying that as a college student, Poe is already less raw and more proven on an NFL level than Cameron Heyward will be going into his second season. Last chance to deny it if you want, but here are some direct quotes of yours, in order:

"Heyward has more upside than Hood but is still raw and unproven."

"Poe is a plug-in and play guy from day one"

"You're saying he's more raw than Heyward..." <--- obvious disagreement on your part

Not only does Heyward already have a full year of real NFL experience under his belt in which he receiver high reviews from the team and fans alike (enough to stop this argument in its tracks), but he was also considered not that raw and fairly NFL ready a year ago when in Poe's spot, aided by the fact that unlike most 5-techs in the NFL, he already had experience in the 3-4 and would not have to change positions as radically as most. Every success Poe has had in the NFL so far has been imagined. He hasn't done anything more than me. All he has right now is potential, and that's it. Yes, there's a ton of it, but surely you know the difference between success and potential, Mr. President of the Lawrence Timmons Fan Club. My gosh, you've said yourself that if Timmons is a reliable starter forever, but not a splashy constant playmaker, then he will be a disappointment and poor draft pick because of where he was taken and his inability to fulfill all his potential. Um, Poe hasn't filled an ounce of his potential yet. Hard to say he's more proven than Baron Batch, let alone Cameron Heyward. So that takes care of the "proof." As for the "raw", that's more of an opinion thing, and I don't really have anything to back me up there...

"He's so raw, it's scary." -- Mike Mayock, on Dontari Poe

Boy, if he thinks that's scary, poor Mike must get night terrors thinking about Cam Heyward!

 

I never said anything negative about Poe, EVER. The closest thing is my saying that I'd prefer help at another position. I never said he wasn't plug-and-play, and I never said he couldn't start for us as a rookie. I was calling you out for saying/implying that as a college student, Poe is already less raw and more proven on an NFL level than Cameron Heyward will be going into his second season. Last chance to deny it if you want, but here are some direct quotes of yours, in order:

"Heyward has more upside than Hood but is still raw and unproven."

"Poe is a plug-in and play guy from day one"

"You're saying he's more raw than Heyward..." <--- obvious disagreement on your part

Not only does Heyward already have a full year of real NFL experience under his belt in which he receiver high reviews from the team and fans alike (enough to stop this argument in its tracks), but he was also considered not that raw and fairly NFL ready a year ago when in Poe's spot, aided by the fact that unlike most 5-techs in the NFL, he already had experience in the 3-4 and would not have to change positions as radically as most. Every success Poe has had in the NFL so far has been imagined. He hasn't done anything more than me. All he has right now is potential, and that's it. Yes, there's a ton of it, but surely you know the difference between success and potential, Mr. President of the Lawrence Timmons Fan Club. My gosh, you've said yourself that if Timmons is a reliable starter forever, but not a splashy constant playmaker, then he will be a disappointment and poor draft pick because of where he was taken and his inability to fulfill all his potential. Um, Poe hasn't filled an ounce of his potential yet. Hard to say he's more proven than Baron Batch, let alone Cameron Heyward. So that takes care of the "proof." As for the "raw", that's more of an opinion thing, and I don't really have anything to back me up there...

"He's so raw, it's scary." -- Mike Mayock, on Dontari Poe

Boy, if he thinks that's scary, poor Mike must get night terrors thinking about Cam Heyward![/quote:2t513c6k]

Snacky, I'm starting to think you don't like me and since you KEEP bringing up Timmons in threads not related to him it must because When I questioned his performance it was like peeing in your cornflakes.

Now reading your response proves to me you're as confused as a cow on astroturf.
First I never said you said anything negative about Poe but you did question my statement that he was a plug-n-play guy and I was trying to qualify that to you, understand now?
Second- Thank you for calling me out about Heyward being more raw than Poe so I can simplify it for you. I said Heyward has more upside than Hood and in my world he would start over Hood opposite Keisel. Also Heyward is raw,loads of pure talent with little experience, He may be entering into his 2nd season but count his snaps/minutes played. He barely saw the field last year for extended key times because the coaches felt Hood and Keisel were better. Playing 5-tech is a different monster than zero-tech. It requires more mental preparedness which is one reason few rookies start or have extended playing time under LeBeau's system.

Third-Poe being plug-n-play for us is a no brainer. at zero-tech he can handle that straight out of Training camp. Its not as complicated as 5-tech or damaging when a mistake is made. Fact is you pointed this out in your analysis about Hoods play, not being aggressive enough. Yes he is raw and in our system more raw than Heyward but his Greater physical skill set tied to position allows for him to start earlier.

And where in the world do you get if we draft Poe we'll have 5 starters on a 3 man line. This is from an earlier response but still relevant. Keisel yes. Hampton, doubtful with his 3rd ACL in Our final game requiring surgery, minimum 10 month rehab and a high cap $$. Best case scenario is he's a PUP canidate meaning we'd see him around wk 7. Heyward, ok, I'd start him over Hood. Hood,no, back-up quality. McLendon, Please Lord no no. Poe, ok but that makes 3, not five.

Heyward-Poe-Kesiel.... What a great potential DL. This could help return our run defense to #1 and give us another year to find that next great ILB.

Have I cleared things up for you in where I stand? I also apologize for the hurt you're feeling over my Timmons statements.

Cajun-

 

I never said anything negative about Poe, EVER. The closest thing is my saying that I'd prefer help at another position. I never said he wasn't plug-and-play, and I never said he couldn't start for us as a rookie. I was calling you out for saying/implying that as a college student, Poe is already less raw and more proven on an NFL level than Cameron Heyward will be going into his second season. Last chance to deny it if you want, but here are some direct quotes of yours, in order:

"Heyward has more upside than Hood but is still raw and unproven."

"Poe is a plug-in and play guy from day one"

"You're saying he's more raw than Heyward..." <--- obvious disagreement on your part

Not only does Heyward already have a full year of real NFL experience under his belt in which he receiver high reviews from the team and fans alike (enough to stop this argument in its tracks), but he was also considered not that raw and fairly NFL ready a year ago when in Poe's spot, aided by the fact that unlike most 5-techs in the NFL, he already had experience in the 3-4 and would not have to change positions as radically as most. Every success Poe has had in the NFL so far has been imagined. He hasn't done anything more than me. All he has right now is potential, and that's it. Yes, there's a ton of it, but surely you know the difference between success and potential, Mr. President of the Lawrence Timmons Fan Club. My gosh, you've said yourself that if Timmons is a reliable starter forever, but not a splashy constant playmaker, then he will be a disappointment and poor draft pick because of where he was taken and his inability to fulfill all his potential. Um, Poe hasn't filled an ounce of his potential yet. Hard to say he's more proven than Baron Batch, let alone Cameron Heyward. So that takes care of the "proof." As for the "raw", that's more of an opinion thing, and I don't really have anything to back me up there...

"He's so raw, it's scary." -- Mike Mayock, on Dontari Poe

Boy, if he thinks that's scary, poor Mike must get night terrors thinking about Cam Heyward![/quote:1ri3vm8v]

Snacky, I'm starting to think you don't like me and since you KEEP bringing up Timmons in threads not related to him it must because When I questioned his performance it was like peeing in your cornflakes.

Now reading your response proves to me you're as confused as a cow on astroturf.
First I never said you said anything negative about Poe but you did question my statement that he was a plug-n-play guy and I was trying to qualify that to you, understand now?
Second- Thank you for calling me out about Heyward being more raw than Poe so I can simplify it for you. I said Heyward has more upside than Hood and in my world he would start over Hood opposite Keisel. Also Heyward is raw,loads of pure talent with little experience, He may be entering into his 2nd season but count his snaps/minutes played. He barely saw the field last year for extended key times because the coaches felt Hood and Keisel were better. Playing 5-tech is a different monster than zero-tech. It requires more mental preparedness which is one reason few rookies start or have extended playing time under LeBeau's system.

Third-Poe being plug-n-play for us is a no brainer. at zero-tech he can handle that straight out of Training camp. Its not as complicated as 5-tech or damaging when a mistake is made. Fact is you pointed this out in your analysis about Hoods play, not being aggressive enough. Yes he is raw and in our system more raw than Heyward but his Greater physical skill set tied to position allows for him to start earlier.

And where in the world do you get if we draft Poe we'll have 5 starters on a 3 man line. This is from an earlier response but still relevant. Keisel yes. Hampton, doubtful with his 3rd ACL in Our final game requiring surgery, minimum 10 month rehab and a high cap $$. Best case scenario is he's a PUP canidate meaning we'd see him around wk 7. Heyward, ok, I'd start him over Hood. Hood,no, back-up quality. McLendon, Please Lord no no. Poe, ok but that makes 3, not five.

Heyward-Poe-Kesiel.... What a great potential DL. This could help return our run defense to #1 and give us another year to find that next great ILB.

Have I cleared things up for you in where I stand? I also apologize for the hurt you're feeling over my Timmons statements.

Cajun-[/quote:1ri3vm8v]
I brought up Timmons because it was a perfect example of your own feelings about potential vs. proven success. Timmons has met and surpassed any expectations typically set for an inside linebacker. However, he has not met or surpassed expectations set for him by many fans, because of his 1st round draft status and potential to excel further. I thought it was relevant because you clearly are disappointed in 1st rounders that do not maximize their potential. Poe has great potential and for all I know is a Hall of Famer... but he hasn't done anything in the NFL yet, at all, and you seem have already anointed him the starter for the forseeable future. There's nothing wrong with that. I would do that with DeCastro if we got him before seeing him in a Steeler uniform. But I thought it was a little inconsistent with your earlier line of thinking, considering Poe could easily fall into the "reliable starter" category of failure -- we just don't know yet. So what I had issue with, and I'll say it again after this if I need to, is your comparison between Poe and Heyward. The notion that Poe is a sure thing from day 1 while Heyward is simultaneously raw and unproven. That seems silly to me for the simple reason that Poe is in college and Heyward had a successful rookie season (despite his low number of snaps, he has proven himself a player to coaches, teammates, and I thought fans). He is unproven by definition. Through no fault of his own, but by definition. The fact that Poe is talented but also extremely raw just adds more confusion for me.

But now you're confusing me more: "And where in the world do you get if we draft Poe we'll have 5 starters on a 3 man line. This is from an earlier response but still relevant. Keisel yes. Hampton, doubtful with his 3rd ACL in Our final game requiring surgery, minimum 10 month rehab and a high cap $$. Best case scenario is he's a PUP canidate meaning we'd see him around wk 7. Heyward, ok, I'd start him over Hood. Hood,no, back-up quality. McLendon, Please Lord no no. Poe, ok but that makes 3, not five."

Um, you are not the coach. I wasn't talking about who I deem to be starters or starters in the abstract. Ziggy gets mixed reviews on the message board, but Tomlin and the coaching staff like him. He's a starter. You don't get to demote him. Jonathan Scott was a starter last year even though I didn't like it. He remained a starter until the coaches took that role away, not when I wanted it to happen. Kevin Colbert says he expects Hampton to return by the season's beginning -- it's easier for a NT to return than a RB, and his injury wasn't as severe as Mendenhall's -- unless you know something Kevin Colbert doesn't. At this point I think the PUP list is the worst case scenario, not best. He'll need to reduce his salary, but he's a starter. Keisel's a starter. Heyward will be so good that he will push for time. Low man on the totem pole, but he will need to get on the field. He'd start for any other team. He'll be a starter on the bench. If Poe is drafted, he'll be a starter on the bench. Unless Hampton is cut. But I'd much rather have him learn from Casey for a year, and I think the team would agree.

The weird thing about this argument is that at the base of it, we don't disagree that much. I'm not against Poe at all, I just hope we're able to land another position. My original comment that got you coming at me was "If we draft Poe, get ready for the 'trade Ziggy/Keisel/Heyward' threads." I bet you WOULD trade Ziggy, considering you think so much less of him than the Steelers. I thought you went off base with what you said, as explained above.

But as you pointed out, I do have a problem with you. My feelings aren't hurt, but you irritate me. You're hypersensitive, elitist, attention starved, and often wrong (on purpose for attention or genuinely, I'm not sure -- sorry about Omar Khan, by the way). It's an unpleasant combination, to say the least. I am far from a man of the people. I regularly say things like, "Most football fans are morons, Steeler fans included." I believe it. I think you are a man of the people. You epitomize the average fan out there, and seem to really resonate with them. That's good for you, and irritating for me. Someone says 2 + 2 = 5, and then more and more people line up behind him. Irritating. I hesitate to draw a comparison to Skip Bayless, because he's now famous for being on ESPN2. I haven't watched one second of him on there, because I vowed not to. I have no idea if he's still a moron or not, but when he was a writer for my local paper covering the 49ers, he would regularly write headlines and articles that were clearly the exact opposite of the truth. Because he wanted to project himself as smarter than the average bear; "All you average joes out there think I'm crazy, but I'm just so smart that you can't wrap your head around it" was his MO. Elitist, attention starved, wrong. I'm not sure if he's hypersensitive the way you are (thinking about when you snapped at Tomlin_Era awhile back -- that was really something). That's the Skip Bayless you remind me of. I was so happy he got promoted out of my paper and onto something I could avoid. You should apply for a job with ESPN2. I think you have a good shot.

 

Poe is a Hampton anew!

He would be our Pouncey pick on the D side w/ only upside and years to play.

No matter, if he's there @ 24, we take him regardless of who else is available including Hightower.

 

I'm with POE. Lets just hope that the 23 teams picking in front of the Steelers are thinking that POE is only a work out warrior and can't play. That will be their stupidity and our gain.

I also believe that there will be good Guard talent in the 2nd round.