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My thoughts on our roster.... secondary and specialists

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by blackandgoldpatrol, Feb 5, 2025 at 1:59 PM.

  1. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    The back end of our defense has been a work in progress for quite some time.... we have some pieces in place, but nearly every area still needs work... ... our specialists have been on of our most consistent position groups, at least at pk.... we've been looking for a punter seemingly forever and a day
    Let's look at what we have

    CB:
    Joey Porter jr ---- the prize of the cb rm.. JPJ had a very trying 2nd yr.... he wasn't consistently beaten, but his reputation for being grabby got the best of him and he became the target for all the refs..... due to that, he also became the target for qb's, who banked on getting automatic PI's ... other than his grabby nature, he is everything you could want in a cb.... he's long..... tackles well, and has great instincts..... he's promised the coaches that he would clean up his deficiencies and I see no reason to doubt him.. look for a pro bowl season next yr

    Donte Jackson ---- acquired in trade for deontae Johnson, and had his best season as a pro, leading the team in int's... a closer look though, and you can clearly see the struggles.. many times when a cb has many int's, it's because he's targeted a lot.... he's quite fast, but has issues in man to man..... Jackson is more of a zone man being asked to basically play out of position.... he was only here on a 1 yr contract, and I fully expect us to look at cb early in the draft, but if he could be brought back on a team friendly deal, then I would have no problem with him as our slot man

    Cam Sutton ---- came back to us after being jettisoned from Detroit for domestic violence... he had to serve an 8 game suspension before hitting the field..... during his first stint with us, he looked like a major long term option, especially in the slot... When he came back from suspension, he was nothing like the cb that left us, and eventually played his way back to the bench..
    I don't believe the team will hold on to his baggage without proper production from him..
    If we resign Jackson and draft a boundary guy, then I fully believe Sutton will be expendable and shown the door...

    Cory Trice ---- long corner that has very good instincts for the position .... built much like JPJ and has had his moments in our defense..
    What he doesn't have is the ability to stay healthy... if he could play a full season, then our search for a cb2 would be over, but that just simply isn't the case... I believe that we keep Trice and use him for the time he's available.. but I can't see us banking on a long term future

    Beanie Bishop ---- rookie with a nose for the ball and a knack for the big play.... much like Donte Jackson though, he is more of a zone guy than man to man... he's clearly a keeper though.... ifbhe can be schemed correctly, than I see some very productive seasons coming for him....

    James Pierre ---- special teams ace, but God forbid he's placed in the defense . .. it's a forgone conclusion that if Pierre is on the field, the ball is coming his way, and there's little he can do about it.... not sure if his special teams prowess is worth his deficiencies in the regular defense.... I believe we keep him for at least another season, possibly 2, in order to keep the coverage teams strong... after that, it's goodbye


    S:
    Minkah Fitzpatrick ---- For a little while, Fitzpatrick was seen as the best FS in the league..... what we've seen in the last 2 seasons is something very different... the turnovers machine is gone... Minkah has struggled in recognition and very often is caught helping the wrong area... he has been a good last line of defense when it comes to free runners.... Minkah has made many tackles on players that would otherwise have scored on us.... he's still a very good safety, but hasn't been the best, and hasn't earned the paycheck he's being given... he's obviously going to stay, and I'm not completely sure if it's him or the coaches, but I don't expect some improvement to come next season


    Deshon Elliott ---- FA signing that turned out to be a home run for us.... There were many games that Elliott was our best defender.... a true nose for the ball and one of our surest tacklers.... I strongly believe he gets an extension and remains a big part of the defense...

    Damontae Kazee ---- at one time, kazee was our big FA acquisition... these days he's a forgotten man.... another defender who's better in zone coverage, but he is hitter....due to the other holes we have, I believe he sticks around, but only for another yr

    Miles killebrew ---- One of the best special teamers in the league, but has absolutely no business in the regular defensive rotation.... he's far too important to the coverage units to cut him or let him walk... but we have to have better depth to keep him out of the regular defense


    PK:
    Chris Boswell ---- cemented his status as the best in the league.... seems like his leg gets stronger every yr.... more often than not, he was our best offensive weapon.... I see no reason not to expect more of the same


    P:
    Corliss Waitman ---- came in when Cam Johnston got hurt.... booming leg, but also inconsistent... some games he would average 50 yds per punt when other games he would average around 38-39..... of course, his good games outweigh his bad, however, once Johnston returns from injury, the job is his
     
  2. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    They could use 2-3 CBs let Sutton, Jackson, and Pierre go. Also need another safety to replace Kazee he was terrible this season.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    We'll have to do it through free agency.... far too many holes elsewhere to dedicate draft capital on more than one corner pick
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    That's fine sign one in free agency and draft one, I have heard DJ Reed being linked to the Steelers FWIW.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member

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    JPJ could clean up his game a lot just by using a better selection of gloves. Don't use gloves that dramatically stand out against the color of the opposing team's uniforms. There's always a lot of hand fighting between receivers and good CBs. No need to highlight where your hands are.
     
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  6. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    Way too late for that.... he's a target now
     
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  7. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member

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    You're probably right. Unfortunately. You would think that's the sort of thing that the cornerbacks coach and probably some other positions as well would bring to light during preseason.

    I would make sure that no defensive players are wearing gloves that are going to dramatically stand out against opposing teams uniforms, and I would probably have the offensive line make sure they're not wearing gloves that will stand out dramatically against the opposing team's helmets. Might get away with some misplaced fingers every now and then.....lol

    At the very least, get rid of all the bright colored gloves. Use white gloves for home games
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Much dead wood on this back end, get rid of it. Players not wanting to tackle, can't use them.
    As we saw late in season, especially in playoff loss to Baltimore no one wanted to tackle. DL, LB, Db's They quit. Dashon Elliot is the only one that earned their paycheck. should have been Steelers MVP. Should be able to replace/upgrade CB with 2nd round pick, but like other posters
    mentioned better quality depth is needed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2025 at 6:33 AM
  9. Bubbahotep

    Bubbahotep Well-Known Member

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    Some people rave about Quinyon Mitchell and while he is good, Porter's comp% allowed was nearly identical to Mitchell's. But Mitchell sure would have been a nice add on the other side of the field. The bigger problem is pass rush, which did its usual post-season disappearing act.
     
  10. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    Crazy thing about Quinyon is that we were locked in on him starting with the senior bowl... Tomlin focused on him during the combine as well..... during the draft, we unsuccessfully tried to trade up in the 1st rd to get him....
    Then he fell into our laps anyway and we do an about face and grab Fautanu
     
  11. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Where did the trade up story come from? Steelers put that out or a beat writer? I would say it’s false if it didnt come from the Steelers because they didn’t pick him when they had the opportunity.
     
  12. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    I strongly urge readers to print out our current roster and see where
    you may want to upgrade. Especially with up
    Coming FA/ draft. We have to get rid of players that don't produce.
    Coaches and FO should also be held accountable, but they aren't.
    Why is this???
     
  13. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    But Mitchell doesn't get all those penalties like Porter Jr does.
     
  14. Steelrules

    Steelrules Well-Known Member

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    Crazy that the Eagles got both Mitchell and Cooper DeJean to fill positions of need
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    It was reported as things unfolded, live during the draft
     
  16. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    So, before I add in my two cents, drafting Quinyon Mitchell leaves the Offensive Tackle room with a hole bigger than a Black Hole for 2024; a spatial occurance which is near infinite. Yes, Broderick played that spot all year but Troy was slated to take over should Broderick falter. Broderick did, Troy took over but Troy got hurt; Broderick back at Right Tackle again. Troy Fautanu was and still is the correct choice until proven otherwise. For that matter, even if Quinyon was the pick, who is playing Right Tackle for Pittsburgh in 2025?!


    Drafting a player in Round One isnt just for the immediate future but also for the foreseeable one as well. Given that it is common knowledge that NFL Scouts not only scout for the current draft year but also upcoming ones, Troys selection should surprise no one.



    Getting back to the Positional Review of the Secondary, Minkah being constantly played 20+ yards deep doesnt aide him nor the defense in any meaningful way. That isnt a Minkah issue. That issue befalls on Coaching. As far as Minkahs lack of turnovers?! Some of it is due to Minkah as there were oppurtunities (the very limited ones he had anyway) but the rest has to do with Offensive Coordinators out scheming the Steelers antiquated Defensive Plan. Hell, even the game against Indianapolis should have been a strong warning sign that Pittsburgh Defensive Game Plan is too simple and too predictable.


    This doesnt affect Minkah but every Defensive Back as well; no matter what coverage assignment they run. Yes, Peezy Jr had a down year but constantly asking him to play off man on early downs is all but signaling that the Steelers are using Zone. Donte Jackson was a hit in terms of turnovers but had mixed results as a cover corner overall as INTs are a very toxic stat.


    In short?! Pittsburgh does need a tune up regarding DBs but the lack of imagination of Defensive Creativity will continue to limit this group; no matter who is brought in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2025 at 7:37 PM
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  17. RipTydz

    RipTydz Well-Known Member

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    I won't say Fautanu was a bad pick or the wrong pick but we currently had Dan Moore and Broderick Jones at Left/Right Tackle. Not saying that was ideal, but we didn't have a legit #2 CB across from JPJ and or #2 WR across from Pickens. So the #1 corner, Quinyon Mitchell, falling to us in the draft maybe should have been the pick in hindsight or WR Brian Thomas Jr. who went to the Jaguars and tore it up. However, we chose to build the trenches and draft the 4th or 5th ranked OT in Fautanu, who some have slatted to be a better fit at guard. Maybe on the Steelers big board he was ranked higher, who knows. With that said, Fautanu needs to come in this year and play well for the Steelers to have made the right choice.
     
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  18. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    4th or 5th ranked OT?!


    Fautanu was universally considered the second best. The only problem with Troy was whether or not his arm length would be sufficient. After finding out it was, his rankings were solidified. The only major red flag were injury concerns though he wasn't injured during his final two seasons at Washington.
     
  19. RipTydz

    RipTydz Well-Known Member

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    If he was considered the 2nd best OT, he wouldn't have been the 6th OT taken in the draft is what im referring to. The Steelers essentially took the 6th OT (maybe he was higher on their board) instead of the #1 CB Mitchell and or #4 WR Thomas Jr. who were selected right after. Other teams may have had him rated as a guard though, but you don't take a guard over a #1 cornerback either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2025 at 10:46 PM
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  20. Thor

    Thor

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    I disagree. He was highly ranked in terms of being inside the top 20 of a lot of analysts' big boards, but Alt and Fashanu were the consensus 1 & 2, Latham not far back from that.

    One of the bigger questions with Fautanu was whether he could stick outside, or be better inside. Along with that, some injury concerns.
     
  21. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Again, an injury, one that made him "medically flagged", is what caused Fautanu to slip outside of the Top 10. For that matter, such instances happen every single draft cycle and Troy is sadly the latest case. Prior to that, it was Joe Alt and Troy. Olu Fashanu was incredibly gifted but incredibly raw. Taliese Fuaga was widely considered to be a Right Tackle only prospect while J.C. Latham's biggest issues coming out were his woes against speed rushers. Troy had his issues too beyond his length; him overreaching on some pass sets along among the biggest of them. Troy's technique and athleticism though were second to Joe Alts.


    Given how only Troy Fautanu and Joe Alt were the only two OTs who were successful at handling speed rushers consistently, it isn't a surprise that both were considered 1 and 2. Joe obviously won out as he is the superior prospect from the classical standpoint of his complete package; tall, long, polished, athletic and battle tested. Troy's major hurdle was his arm length. For that matter, Graham Barton technically was OT 3 but arm length concerns popped up about him as well. After the Combine, he was officially set in stone as an IOL.


    Long story short?! Troy was considered very athletic and quite polished. Arm length though was his biggest hurdle. Once that got cleared up, he was back among the Top 10 overall; only to be dropped again by being "medically flagged".
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2025 at 12:09 AM
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  22. Thor

    Thor

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    Honestly, while I know there was some talk around his medicals, I never came across anything in the build up to the draft that made a big deal out of it. It was there if you looked for it, and I seem to recall him discussing it at the combine, but often in the analysis, film, etc., I reviewed it wasn't even mentioned.

    You always had him a little higher than I did, which is fine. Part of the fun in reviewing different prospects is sharing what you see in a player, or picking up something you hadn't. I certainly was never down on him, and now that he's in B&G I'm definitely pulling for him.
     

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