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My crude rating system for Tomlin/Cowher in the playoffs....

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Pengvin67, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. Pengvin67

    Pengvin67 Well-Known Member

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    I am an avid chess player, but not really that great, so my rating is pretty much beginner. But I like the rating system, as you get various +'s and -'s based on who you play I thought I would apply it to our head coaches (except for Noll, because I didn't see all of his playoff games). I went through all the games I remember and tried to assess the performance and notes from what I remember. I'll max each game at + or - 10 and then add the score divided by the number of games x 10. 100 is a perfect score which no one would ever get. Lol Also, these are my humble opinions, so not trying to influence anyone.

    This also assumes the Patriots were legit (even though I know that they cheated the Steelers multiple times).

    Cowher
    1. 1992 Div vs Bills L 3 - 24. Cowher 1st time in playoffs vs defending champs. (-4)
    2. 1993 Wc @ Chiefs L 24-27 OT facing Joe Montana on the Road. Up by 7 late. Montana Magic. (-2)
    3. 1994 Div vs Browns W 29-9 facing Bill Belichik, 3rd Win vs Browns same season (+6)
    4. 1994 AFCC vs Chargers L 13-17 facing Humphries/Bobby Ross, Meltdown after up 10. (-10)
    5. 1995 Div vs Bills W 40-21 Bills on the downside of their run, game got close late, good win. (+4)
    6. 1995 AFCC vs. Colts W 20-16 Much closer than anticipated, Could have easily lost. But a win. (+6)
    7. 1995 SB vs. Cowboys L 17-27 We all know this one. Good effort against a dynasty team. (-2)
    8. 1996 Wc vs Colts W 42-14 Was closer than score at times, Wore down the colts with Run. (+2)
    9. 1996 Div @ Patriots L 3-28 Ugly game, no offense with Tomczak. No answers on D for Martin/Bledsoe (-4)
    10. 1997 Div vs Patriots W 7-6 Tough defensive struggle, Really good win vs Parcells. (+5)
    11. 1997 AFCC vs Broncos L 21-24 Disappointing Loss. Kordell was a turnover machine. Elway and TD too much. Can't be too hard on Steelers facing HOF QB/TE/RB. (-4)
    12. 2001 Div vs Ravens W 27-10 Solid Win vs Divisional Opponent, No surprises here. (+4)
    13. 2001 AFCC vs Patriots L 17-21 Expected to Win this one, Kordell struggles mightily. (could have been a cheating game, but otherwise felt like 1994 vs SD again). (-10)
    14. 2002 WC vs. Browns W 36-33 Great comeback in this one. Tough to beat a team 3 times in a season (+5)
    15. 2002 Div @ Titans L 31-34 OT Great game, back and forth, McNair/George too much. Questionable call late gives Titans 2nd kick to win (-3)
    16. 2004 Div vs Jets W 20-17 Jets Kicker gives away game, Very lucky to get this one. (+4)
    17. 2004 AFCC vs Patriots L 27-41 Brady/Belichik at the height of their Powers (cheating). Pittsburgh overwhelmed early, showed fight, but succumbed. (-5)
    18. 2005 WC @ Bengals W 31-17 Start of We Dey! Unfortunately Carson goes down very early. Could have been a tougher matchup. (+3)
    19. 2005 Div @ Colts W 21-18 Huge Win vs HOF Manning/Dungy combo. Idiot Kicker misses to tie. SIGNATURE Win on the Road when expected to lose. (+10)
    20. 2005 AFCC @ Broncos W 34-17 Expected the win vs Plummer, tough venue, but Broncos had no answers after beating Patriots week before. Very solid win. (+8)
    21. 2005 SB vs Seahawks W 21-10 Defense shuts down Seahawks. Did have help with some favorable calls. Big Ben plays poorly. Not a suberb win, but a win. (+8)

    Cowher ends up with +21 divided by 21 x 10 = a 10 rating.

    Tomlin
    1. 2007 WC vs Jaguars L 29-31 Can't stop Garrard, 2nd loss to Jaguars in 3 weeks at Home. 1st playoff for Tomlin. Garrard's only playoff win. Mulligan (-2)
    2. 2008 Div vs Chargers W 35-24 Good Win vs Rivers, but Chargers were average all Season. No surprises (+4)
    3. 2008 AFCC vs Ravens W 23-14 Polamalu seals up the win! 3rd Win vs Ravens this season. Great win, but not enough to be Signature as it was in Pittsburgh. (+8)
    4. 2008 SB vs Cardinals W 27-23 Not sure why it got so close at the end. Warner/Boldin/Fitzgerald keep the Cardinals in contention. Signature drive by Big Ben but not a Signature win in my opinion. (+8)
    5. 2010 Div vs Ravens W 31-24 Big Comeback after halftime for Steelers. Antonio Brown makes great catch to set-up go ahead TD. Solid win vs Divisional opponent. (+6)
    6. 2010 AFCC vs Jets W 24-19 Sanchez makes it close towards end. Antonio Brown with another clutch catch to seal the win with a first down. Not a spectacular win. Jets did a favor by beating Patriots in Divisional round. (+6)
    7. 2010 SB vs Packers L 26-31 Steelers come out flat, down big early, nice comeback. Mendenhall fumble swings momentum. Big Ben set up for signature drive, but 4 and out seals it. (-6)
    8. 2011 WC @ Broncos L 23-29 OT Can't prepare for Tebow's attributes. Pretty Bad Loss. Down 6-20 at Half. Nice comeback, but no defense at the end. Tim Tebow's only playoff win. (-8)
    9. 2014 WC vs Ravens L 17-30 No offense/no defense. Bell out after injury in week 17. Flat game vs Divisional opponent. (-6)
    10. 2015 WC @ Bengals W 18-16 Bengals give Steelers game with penalties/TO at end of game. Pittsburgh blows big lead. Should have lost this one. (+2)
    11. 2015 Div @ Broncos L 16-23 Big Ben playing hurt, No AB, no offense. Key turnover by RB during crucial drive. Broncos defense too much as Manning manages game. (-4)
    12. 2016 WC vs Dolphins W 30-12 Comfortable win vs Matt Moore and average Dolphins. Nothing here to see. (+2)
    13. 2016 Div @ Chiefs W 18-16 Boswell is the MVP. Great win on the road. Would have been Signature if Mahomes existed. Beating alex smith should happen. (+7)
    14. 2016 AFCC @ Patriots L 17-36 Terrible performance in "statement" game. Steelers didn't show up. Bell injured but would not have mattered. No chance against the Cheaters. (-8)
    15. 2017 Div vs. Jaguars L 41-44 Terrible performance before "statement" game. Steelers didn't show up. No answers for Blake Bortles. Signature loss (-10).

    Tomlin is a -1. Divided by 15 x 10 = -0.67 rating

    So, I would have to do more coaches to get an idea of what all this means. But to say that Tomlin is anywhere near Cowher as a coach is ridiculous. I know most of you won't read this, but you can do your own evaluation. I personally saw every one of these game in detail except for the 7-6 win vs Patriots. Feel free to comment about my system/rating. I tried to be fair and impartial. Mind you, the Patriots were cheating during Cowher's stronger runs, so who knows what that did to the ratings.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  2. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Hello

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    A lot of work went into this post and I applaud the enthusiasm of the OP. But I still didn’t read it. Too long for an old guy. I would have needed 3 naps.
     
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  3. Pengvin67

    Pengvin67 Well-Known Member

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    No worries. I figured if I'm going to have my opinions on Tomlin, this is what gives me my reasons. To be honest, when you can't prepare for David Garrard, Blake Bortles, Tim Tebow, that says enough for me. Cowher had some bad playoff losses, but nothing close to these names. Anyways, thanks for the props. Lol
     
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  4. SteelerNole

    SteelerNole Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your outcome. Cowher always felt like what a Steeler coach should be. I’ve never felt that with Tomlin. I don’t dislike Tomlin, but he has never felt “Steeler” enough to me.
     
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  5. Hawaii 5-0

    Hawaii 5-0 Well-Known Member

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    to me they're equal, both have one Super Bowl win.
     
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  6. Pengvin67

    Pengvin67 Well-Known Member

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    I hear you and that is a diplomatic way to look at it. But, thanks for reading/skimming my post. Lol
     
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  7. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    Garrard didn't beat them. Garrard threw for 140 yards 1TD, 2 INTS, 41.9 QB rating. Neither did Bortles. Ben lost both those games due to turnovers. Tebow had 10 completions and none bigger than the one in OT that won the game.
     
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  8. Pengvin67

    Pengvin67 Well-Known Member

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    I know sort of what you mean. But why is Ben committing Turnovers? Is the HC not keeping him accountable? That's what my feeling is. Tomlin can't keep players accountable to their digressions. That's why I don't think he's a good coach. He doesn't have the assertiveness to control the players on the team. That's why they can get away with turnovers, poor punts, poor performances in general. That's how I see it. I think I am more of a fan that believes that the head coach is responsible for everything. If your players don't perform, then that's on you as the head coach. Again, we can agree to disagree. ;) No problem.
     
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  9. Hanratty#5

    Hanratty#5 Well-Known Member

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    Garrard had a big 40 yard run on 4th down that set up the winning FG with seconds to play. Harrison had a clear shot on Garrard on the 4th down play but was tackled by the Jags lineman who was beaten on the play. Of course there was no holding called on the play.
     
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  10. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    You sort of know what I mean?

    Ok in the battle of franchise QB's and HC's who wins? Franchise QB wins every time in today's NFL.

    Players stated that they know where they stand with Tomlin. Players stated the he holds them accountable.

    You don't see Tomlin as a good coach after all these years of helping this team win games? IMO that's a very strange opinion to have.

    In today's league it's more about having a good working relationship with players than it is about having control.

    When players turn the ball over then that's on the players.
     
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  11. Pengvin67

    Pengvin67 Well-Known Member

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    I meant I know what you're saying about turnovers being not directly attributed to the HC, but there has to still be some accountability on the head coach's part. So you're saying if Big Ben wasn't a franchise quarterback, Mike Tomlin would be a better coach? So in regards to players being held accountable, how did the AB situation work out? Personally, I believe Tomlin is a too much of a player's coach and that's why the players don't have much fear about making mistakes. So, the players work Tomlin by saying "yeah, yeah, Tomlin is great" to the public and that protects their job as players. I mean, what's Tomlin going to really do to them? It's great for the players, and if they don't win a championship, playoff game, important regular season game, it's all the same to them. They get paid the same. Otherwise, don't you think you would have seen some solid playoff runs with the talent they had? I mean, to the point where they are in an AFCCG and have a chance. Tomlin was very fortunate to get the Ravens and Jets at home in his 1st 2 AFCCG. If the Patriots were there, cheating or not, no chance for Tomlin. I see Tomlin as an average to above average coach considering the talent that he has had over his career. I think the players have won games in spite of Tomlin at times. The same way you blame Big Ben for his turnovers, I'll give him and the players credit for the wins. Right?
     
  12. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I like what you’ve attempted to do here. Since the +10 to -10 scores are subjective, there’s going to be some disagreement among fans. I think you were too kind to Cowher in scoring the AFCCG win vs. the Colts, which was one of the most stressful victories I’ve ever watched. I also think you gave Tomlin too high of a score for the AFCCG win vs. the Jets where we nearly blew a 24-0 lead, and dinged him too much for the Tebow game (where we were more beat up than I’ve ever seen a team try to play in a playoff game).

    I think Tomlin has been a solid coach during his tenure, but I do think Cowher was quite a bit better. He won a lot of postseason games with a revolving door of so-so QBs.
     
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  13. Pengvin67

    Pengvin67 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, it's very crude. Lol But that's the point. Everything is an opinion. That's just how I remember those games. But I think the Patriots cheated the Steelers out of a few SB opportunities. That's what I don't like. They influenced Cowher's legacy. But I could be wrong. Thanks for reading my post at least. I appreciate it.
     
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  14. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    lol, but Tomlin won his lone Super Bowl with Cowher's hand picked players. Santonio Holms, James Harrison, Troy, Ben, etc. That SB shouldn't have been close, because We had the better team.
     
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  15. Hawaii 5-0

    Hawaii 5-0 Well-Known Member

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  16. Jujubean

    Jujubean Well-Known Member

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    Correct. The two are not even in the same stratosphere.

    With that being said Cowher slipped up in the playoffs several times as well
     
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  17. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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  18. Hawaii 5-0

    Hawaii 5-0 Well-Known Member

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    yes, he was.

    but Cowher didn't want to draft Ben...
     
  19. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    Pretty much sums it up for me too.
     
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  20. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    If anybody thinks they are even close, tells me they didn't watch all the games or doesn't understand good coaching when they see it. Which there are few here. But that's why we have these discussions.
     
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  21. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there are many that dislike him, just think that many don't think he is a good coach. Change is needed but it won't happen with the Rooneys.
     
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  22. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    Ben historically ****s the bed against Jacksonville... Don't know why but he goes pick city against em dating back to the Matthis days (vomit). Broncos game was a total failure to adjust after being cocky put the Steelers in the rears and with time left, stayed cocky and still no adjustments.

    I love Ben but I don't think anyone has ever checked him since the chin left. Too much leash, too much influence. The O is terribly predictable under Arians, tequila cowboy and more so under RF... Subtle changes that were noticeable over the years but the gun slinger has his way it appears again with no threat of leash yanking. While I admire his toughness insisting to play hurt, his ass has needed to be checked there too as we have discussed over the years. I think the FO on down has catered too much to his whims and its lead to some pleasing results at times but is also the reason his and this teams accomplishments weren't further rewarded.

    Okay beers getting warm... After all that, I would like a HC or position coach to make a mofo stay in his lane. At the expense of talking about the ****riots, I don't believe tom tom's opinion or demands goes too far outside of X's and O's... And those need the boss's approval. That sort of keep folks disciplined matters and this team has been missing that IMO.
     
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  23. lewisha

    lewisha Well-Known Member

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    Great post, Pengvin.

    Hawaii, So you're saying Cowher, Tomlin, Kubiak and Switzer are all equal? All have 1 Super Bowl win. I dont think SB win is a great measurement.

    IMO, Switzer and Tomlin seem the same to me, they won a Super Bowl off of the previous coaches success/ players. Kubiak was like Ditka, caught lightning in a bottle with great defense. I would put Cowher above all 3, taking into account Cowher was in the era of the GOAT/ Cheatriots, plus for most of his time had journeyman QBs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  24. Hawaii 5-0

    Hawaii 5-0 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not comparing non Steelers HCs to Steelers HCs, only Cowher and Tomlin to each other.

    Cowher was the Steelers HC for 16 seasons, and won one Super Bowl. Tomlin has also won one Super Bowl, in only 12 seasons.

    the title of this thread is "my crude rating system." this is mine, they're pretty much even to me.

    Tomlin's career coaching record is 133-73-1 .645% icluding a 8-7 playoff record .533%.
    Cowher's career coaching record is 161-99-1 .618% including a 12-9 playoff record .571%.
     
  25. lewisha

    lewisha Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha. I think having a top 10 QB had alot to do with both their records. Cowher couldnt get over the hump until he got one, and IMO, Tomlin has had 12 years with one, and not been able replicate what he did early with coach and player hold-overs. I was a Tomlin fan for the first 8 years or so, but think the Steelers have become stagnant under him. We may be able to closer compare in the next few years, with Ben's injury/ retirement.
     
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