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Minkah Fitzpatrick worth a 1st?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by SDOT, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Ryan Clark is on meth.
     
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  2. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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  3. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I like Clark but think he is flat out wrong.
     
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  4. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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  5. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    On trading up next year draft....I guess time will tell, but I do not see how that can happen. We have no 3rd (yes hoping for a comp pick), and not many picks at all. With the limited cap space, needing to try and resign key players, they are going to need every draft pick and hit om 2 and 3 (if they get the comp). The D has the components to really go to the next level, still lacks depth. With Ben's uncertainty, the O needs a lot of work yet and desperately needs a playmaker. The money is not there for a FA signing, so they have to use the draft hoping someone falls, and the rest to fill obvious needs.
     
  6. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Miami is doomed with that draft pick.
     
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  7. BobbyBiz

    BobbyBiz Well-Known Member

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    Yep. And we all know how bullheaded some people can be when it comes to admitting that they are wrong. Plenty of example(s) on this board.
     
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  8. Hanratty#5

    Hanratty#5 Well-Known Member

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    So Clark is saying that we shouldn't just focus on how well he is playing? What the hell else would you focus on?
     
  9. niterider

    niterider Well-Known Member

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    From what I gather, Clark is suggesting that we would have been roughly a top 5 pick in the draft this year had it not been for the trade and Fitz isn't worth that especially when our greatest need is on offense. I mean he's probably wrong but he's not DEFINITELY wrong. Only time will tell. Fitz could blow out his knee tomorrow for all we know. This kind of debate is fun to talk about but can't be taken seriously until we have another few years of data.
     
  10. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    Look, if we kept our 1st round pick and were able to pick up his clone next season, would it be a good pick? How could it not? You take a chance with your 1st round pick every year. How many 1st round busts have there been? We get to USE our 1st round pick a year early and get a proven 1st rounder not even in his prime yet. We rolled the dice and won this time. No other way to look at it, this season or next.
     
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  11. BobbyBiz

    BobbyBiz Well-Known Member

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    ......and without paying him a signing bonus or accounting for it on the salary cap.
     
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  12. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    From the nfl.com power rankings blurb (and I concur):

    "Prior to Fitzpatrick's Week 3 arrival, Pittsburgh's opposing QBs had a 131.3 passer rating. That figure has plummeted to 74.6 with Fitzpatrick roaming the secondary. You want a star when you give up a first-round pick ... the Steelers got one."
     
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  13. TRUCK

    TRUCK Well-Known Member

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    I love the trade. Having said that, the above numbers are skewed a bit by comparing Brady and Wilson to the QB's we faced from week 3 onward.
     
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  14. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Speaking of this... let’s talk about DK Metcalf or James Harrison some more.
     
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  15. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    I am detecting some indirect jealousy here. Is a bit faint for certain but it is there. There is more to this dislike for the move to get Minkah that Ryan is not letting on.



    This is only my guess but it does have merit to it. Ryan was also a Free Safety but not to the caliber that Minkah is as Minkah's capabilities are clearly on another planet in comparison to Ryan's own. Ultimately, it begs the question;



    Could it be possible that Ryan feels indirectly disrespected by Minkah due to Minakh's capabilities being never before seen in Steelers History by a Free Safety and therefore Minkah being praised far more than he ever was?!?!



    Again, just my two cents.
     
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  16. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Personally I believe there is more to it than what Ryan is stating. Something is not right here. Many former players have loved the move since Minkah began making plays. Ryan appears to be the only one that does not.



    Does he feel indirectly threatened by Minkah and directly betrayed by #SteelersNation for a Free Safety that has never before been seen and shatters the Steelers historical trend of Free Safety play?!?!
     
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  17. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    For anyone wanting a 1st rounder back and maybe a second, in watching the Dallas/NY game last night it seems the Cowboys were in need of a safety so badly that they were willing to part with a 1st round pick for Adams of the Jets. They balked at giving up 2 second rounders which was the Jets asking price. So at the end of the season if Fitz hasn't balled out enough for Ryan Clark or others on the board they can trade him to Dallas, recoup their 1st round pick and maybe get a second or third for him and then go get the nameless player that will put up better numbers than Fitz has in 6 games.
     
  18. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Rod Woodson you say?! Interesting comparison. I definitely will say that, talent wise, Rod Woodson could potentially be argued as the greatest Steeler based on just that ability. From what I read, "Rod Is God" was a real thing as Rod Woodson was "Prime Time" before Deion even graced the football field.



    That said, in terms of Steelers comps, you are right. Major difference stems from Rod's ability in the return game. Minkah does not have that. Now, for a pro comp, I cannot decide whether or not I would like to call him "Malcolm Jenkins 2.0" because he and Minkah are near carbon copies of each other or an Ed Reed.


    I say I am so torn on this because Malik Hooker is the closest thing I have ever seen to Ed Reed himself. Never thought I see the day personally.
     
  19. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    There in lies New York's greatest shortcoming in terms of why the trade broke down so fast. Jamal Adams is best used at or near the line of scrimmage in which plays happen in front of him. That is a major issue as this limits Jamal's versatility. Sure, he can be an impact, playmaking Strong Safety, Slot Corner, Dime 'Backer or even WILL Backer but use him as a Single High Deep Centerfielder at your own risk; a major detriment to what Dallas would want.



    Minkah on the other hand, can be deployed in so many other ways because he has Pro Bowl level capability no matter where he lines up. His greatest position though, is the Free Safety position and namely playing as the Single High Deep Centerfielder. Said position is FAR more vital in today's game than ever because team's best offensive weapons LOVE to exploit personnel matchups in the deep middle shallow to the middle of the defense.



    A ballhawking, impact playmaker of a Free Safety solves a COLOSSAL level of deficiencies within any defense via their mere presence alone. Opposing teams will now have to throw within that vicinity at their own risk. More often than not though, that risk is not worth taking.
     
  20. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  21. Hawaii 5-0

    Hawaii 5-0 Well-Known Member

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    The Steelers didn't trade away their future — they stole Minkah Fitzpatrick from the Dolphins

    WRITTEN BY
    MIKE DECOURCY

    On the day the Steelers traded away their 2020 first-round draft pick, they were on pace to lose all 16 of their regular-season games and to make the No. 1 overall selection. They were not just winless, they were down one Hall of Fame quarterback. So maybe it could be understood that analysts such as ESPN's Ryan Clark blasted the organization for making such a deal.

    "I hate it," Clark said on SportsCenter with Scott Van Pelt.

    On the day the Steelers made that trade, though, they excused themselves from the competition to exercise the first pick in the draft.

    Safety Minkah Fitzpatrick, acquired from the Dolphins for the Steelers' first-round pick and an exchange of late-round picks, has not been the singular reason Pittsburgh has rallied from an 0-3 start to a 4-4 record midway through the season. His addition, though, has had a massive impact on the team's ability to win four of its past five games. And still Clark is not standing down from his original (mistaken) position.

    "If this season ends and you say without Fitz safety would be the No. 1 position on the draft board then it’s the best trade,” Clark posted on Twitter after Fitzpatrick contributed to the Steelers’ 26-24 victory over the Colts by returning an interception 93 yards for a touchdown. "I didn’t believe it then & don’t believe it now. I believe offensive skill is/will be a must."

    Clark was a Steeler for eight seasons, appearing in two Super Bowls and anchoring an all-time great defense as the team won its sixth Lombardi Trophy in 2008. He was not drafted by the team, but he was around long enough to understand how the Steelers run their organization.

    And so he should know better than to discuss whether the Steelers would have safety as the “No. 1 position" on their board. They have operated under the “best athlete available" procedure since at least the choice of Joe Greene from North Texas in 1969.

    This is not to say if two comparable players are on the board they will not select the one who best fits their team's needs. But a simple glance at the 2018 NFL Draft, when the team was starving for inside linebackers following the career-threatening injury to Ryan Shazier, affirms they will look first at whether they believe a player will become exceptional.

    Unable to climb from the 28th position because they could not find an ideal trading partner, the Steelers watched as the likes of Roquan Smith (Bears), Tremaine Edmunds (Bills), Leighton Vander Esch (Cowboys) and eventually Rashaan Evans (Titans) were chosen by other teams. The Steelers chose safety Terrell Edmunds, wideout James Washington and quarterback Mason Rudolph — all starters now — while not a single inside backer went off the board.

    Long before the Steelers were presented the chance to select Edmunds on that night in Texas, the Dolphins grabbed Fitzpatrick with the 10th overall pick. Miami signed him to a four-year, $16.4 million deal and paid his signing bonus of more than $10 million. Which meant when Pittsburgh landed him, his combined cap hit for the three seasons he remained under contract would be less than $6 million.

    Folks, that’s not a great trade.

    That’s a steal.

    Since arriving in Pittsburgh, Fitzpatrick has played in six games. The Steelers are 4-2 in that stretch, losing by four points at San Francisco and in overtime to the Ravens. He has intercepted four passes, tied for second in the league, which is half as many as the Steelers picked off all last season. It is more than any Steeler has gotten since Troy Polamalu intercepted seven in 2010, when he was NFL Defensive Player of the Year. Fitzpatrick also has forced two fumbles and recovered one.

    The NFL's Next Gen Stats team demonstrated that since Fitzpatrick was acquired and installed as the team’s free safety — he has played there 85 percent of the time, compared to 22 percent with the Dolphins — the opponent’s passer rating on deep throws has plunged from 141.4 to 10.8, from three touchdowns out of seven attempts to none in 15.

    That has helped the Steelers enter the playoff picture, even though they have used two backup QBs in the weeks since Ben Roethlisberger departed with an elbow injury that required surgery. Their offense has continued to progress slowly — the progress interrupted when Rudolph was knocked out by a high hit from a Ravens defender and missed 1½ games. But the defense has been extraordinary, and only a complete collapse would put the team’s draft pick back into the top-10 range.

    As of now, it would be the 17th pick in the draft.

    If that’s where the Steelers wind up, good luck to the Dolphins finding a player as great as Fitzpatrick with the 17th pick. And the search might be even more challenging by the time Minkah and the Steelers are done in 2019.

    https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...de-dolphins-future/136e6fcocrxs81w0hotukbc6hv
     
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  22. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Minkah Fitzpatrick could end up being the greatest Free Safety in Steelers history.... since Donnie Shell and Troy Polamalu were strong safeties. We've had some damn good FS's over the years.. Clark was good, Hope was good, Perry was good... but Fitz is on another level. He could be "Ed Reed" good if he keeps it up.
     
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  23. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not reed good but he will sniff that territory lol
     
  24. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    No brainer... And an absolute yes!!!
     
  25. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit... Edmunds is playing better at SS now that Fitz is Free Safety. :cool:
     
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