Mike Wallace haters

You didn't "obliterate" any point. If you believe Mike Wallace is worth Desean Jackson money, then so be it. I don't. Drop stats don't tell the whole story...sorry, that's just me. I am not a Mike Wallace hater. I hope he comes back. But he's not as complete a WR as many here think he is. What's interesting about these "drop" numbers is that they suggest Jabar gaffney has better hands than larry Fitzgerald and that Mike Wallace has better hands than Greg Jennings. Neither is true. These "stats" don't tell us who is capable of 'fighting for" the football. Mike Wallace isn't a "fight for the football" type of WR. I am not saying he is supposed to be, but if he wants top dollars, he has to be willing to rip the ball away from his defender. Instead, I tend to see it happening the other way around.

 

any wallace lover want to bet me whether the steelers points per game with wallace compared to points per game without wallace once he leaves for the big payday are much different?
all i hear about is how fast he is and how he takes the top off off coverage...yadda yadda blah blah. is this why we were 20ish in the reedzone? in the teens in total offense?
i am willing to bet that this offense wouldnt even miss him if he was gone. i'll go as far as saying this team would be better off using his 'fitz money' on other players and positions.
how many other teams have this type of deep threat? zero...how many teams outproduce us? lots.
well, either wallace is so great that he makes up for ben being mediocre, rbs being mediocre, wrs being mediocre or wallce is just another decent/good wr on this team.
you cant have it both ways. wallace cant be so great that he deserves 10 million because of what he does for this offense and ben be elite and the rbs and other wrs be good/great but have a below average offense for the entire nfl.

 

Actually I complained about him on the other board last year....As stated I think he is good ,but not great....I also believe he is starting to prove his self to be a selfish player...I hope I am wrong ,but I think the kid is on the verge of doing his career serious damage....If we didn't have a new OC then the hold out wouldn't be such a big deal....

I am telling everyone his ability to block will be huge in the Haley system....He better get to camp and learn how or even when he does show up he will not produce very well......He could have a whole season the way he finished last season and then he won't even get 5 Mil a year....

 

Jackson should have had 3 touchdowns his first year, but as he was waltzing into the endzone, he let go of the ball before crossing the line, thinking more of his celebration than of the score.

 

I meant 7 touchdowns...can't seem to edit, keep getting an Internal Server Error

 

You guys are nuts if you think Wallace will play for 5 million a year, he might not get it from the Steelers but some team will pay him.

 

it doesn't matter what you think he's worth, 5 mil a year sounds great....to bad the redskins paid Garcon 7 mil a year and inflated the market. That's the main problem if in the league a player like Garcon gets paid 7mil a year than Wallace is going to get more because he is a better player both physically and statistically. I do think the steelers will sign him and for a discount but not of the 5mil a year variety.

Everyone has holes in their game so I won't argue much there, but you point out four....and one (pouting after plays) is again just speculation. I say that because I've never seen it and it's not something I can look at the tape and prove I've never seen any tape of him pouting. So in my opinion that's three holes which isn't much...and doesn't make for an over rated one trick pony.

 

they did this same thing a few years back at NT. 100 mil. contract to a NT. snyder is a nutcase in the offseason, the way he throws money around and gets everything out of kilter.

 

Dammit man your an idiot, No he isn't a fight for the ball type of guy.......but fast guys get paid too....it's kind of an important thing in football. He's got Randy Moss type speed which hasn't been seen in the NFL since....well Randy Moss. It's your failure to see that speed like that is special that baffles me. He's not a Calvin Johnson type guy....but that doesn't mean he can't produce like him....and deserve to get paid like a top receiver. There's only 3 or 4 receivers in the league that are big, strong, and fast. The fact that Wallace can run right by you even tho you know that's what he's going to do is special. Unless you put a safety over top he'll get open way more than 50% of the time.......sounds like a game changer to me.

by the way Desean Jackson is just a punk...there is no comparison. Wallace is leaps and bounds a better receiver and football player.

 

which guys says he should only get paid 5 million per year?

 

if wallace is as great as you say that he is, what's the reason for this team being so poor in scoring and redzone scoring?

 

For the record, I claimed to have obliterated all of your points, and I stand by it.

You're right though, the chart only measures being able to hold onto the ball once it gets to him versus then allowing it to hit the ground, and not maneuvering to get into position. However, it does give you the full numbers in addition to the perecentages to give you a complete picture (FitzGerald had more attempts than Gaffney, which could be the reason for the extra drop). You are free to take quantity into account; Golden Tate at number 1? Only 35 attempts helps him. No one's saying you have to rank the receivers in that order. It's an indicator of likeliness to drop. Comparing number 5 and number 6 might be ridiculous, but comparing number 11 and number 76 might have something to it. There are a million aspects that go into catching a football, and no one knows that better than me, but if you're talking about hands/drops, which is what you were just ragging on Wallace about and named three specific plays, this list is a pretty good statistic.

http://www.unnecessaryquotes.com/

 

yes snack you schooled him,
and sorry for the name calling, uncalled for I admit.

Listen, I don't mean to say I think Wallace is perfect....as you pointed out he's not much or a "redzone" threat ( tho I think BA was on to something with that end around to Wallace inside the 5 during the broncos game) but that speaks to the fact that he's not much of a jump and fight type receiver simply because he isn't built for it.

But people that do the "he's just fast thing" well i think he's more than that to begin with....but he's not just fast.....he's unbelievably fast. No lie he's up there with the fastest to EVER play that's not an exaggeration. Like Mitchell said about the DT position " If he take's two people from the offense (to block him) then I know the other team has one less man than we do". Wallace essentially does this for the offense...because you cannot just put one person on him....unless maybe if it's an elite corner but I'd still bet Wallace would get behind him a good bit of times. He takes and extra defender away and leaves things open for other people sanders, brown, miller etc... to me that's a pretty important player....not worth fitz money (which I don't think he truly thinks he's worth) but worth a decent amount, and if signing him means they might not be able to secure sanders for the future....I'm more comfortable with that. I do truly believe they'll keep Wallace and Brown around for awhile tho.

 

Please enlighten me (all of us) how you reached that conclusion of yours that I was talking about you?

 

His name is Bruce Arians and we've resolved that issue thankfully

 

He did obliterate your points dude. And you are the definition of a hater in this case.

You say Wallace has more drops than DJax, then someone says uhhh no not true, and you say, well Wallace doesn't fight for the ball. USE SOME FACTS! Show me a play where you think Wallace could've reasonably fought for the ball and made a difference (don't give me one where he's overthrown by 10 yards).

You're entitled to your opinion but it just looks silly when people are providing real evidence to counter your claim and you say you don't care about numbers and continue to keep your opinion with no evidence.

 

There were two plays in one of the Cleveland games that I believe everyone is basing this on. An "alligator arm" play and a "not fighting for the ball" play. I couldn't find either on youtube to show, but I have them on my DVR and I've studied them carefully, and decided that people are dead wrong on both cases. I went into further detail in another thread, but basically for the alligator arms, the ball had come and gone before he had a chance to see it and react. He started to put his hands up but the ball was already gone, and so he put them back down real fast to protect himself. He didn't cost us anything or sacrifice a catch. He didn't have a chance. If anything was his fault, you could say it was not turning back to the QB in time, but that's not the same as alligator arms by a long shot. In the other play, Ben drastically underthrew him and the DB covering him, and our fans accused him of not trying to break up the INT. What people don't seem to realize is that he and the DB were both positioning themselves to catch the ball in one place, even after seeing the throw, and then the ball wound up someplace different. The DB dropped the ball because he jumped up to catch a high one and then it came in at his feet, having been redirected by severe wind. Wallace had no chance at even touching it, because it had moved so much. He did try, but it was hopeless. And no one bothered to examine the play when it's so much more fun to ***** for 8 months.

 

wallace brings a ton more positives to the team , then he does negatives. bottom line.

 

Yeah, see, here's the problem, though: I never said Wallace has more drops that Desean Jackson. Where did I ever say this? This entire thread is a bunch of bitching over nothing and responding to statements and points of view that don't exist. So go back at every post I made in this thread and tell me where I wrote or even argued that Wallace has more drops than jackson.

Better yet, I'll do it for you. Here are my posts. Read them and then respond and tell me where I made a statement or argument that Wallace dropped the ball more than Jackson.

Mike isn't in DeSean jackson's league.

Jackson will make the tough catches. Wallace is soft. A receiver's job is to CATCH THE FOOTBALL. I'd have to do the research, but three big drops that come off the top of my head: two of them in SB XLV, one that went through his hands into a Packer defender and ended up as an INT on ben's stat sheet and one he couldn't hang on to during the final 2:00 drive. Then there's the drop in the playoffs last season against Denver.

So you can throw all the numbers out there that you want, but in a close game, late, when the Steelers need a big reception, Wallace isn't the guy I want the ball thrown to. Sorry. DeSean jackson is money. Mike...uh, not so much.

The video footage doesn't help us. So it's not covering anything. And you're sidestepping the argument by whining about where Roethlisberger SHOULD have thrown the ball. What the eff does that have to do with Wallace's receiving skills? Stick to the topic.

If you're referring to me, where in any of my posts did I state that Jackson served as an "example"? I simply made the point that I believe Jackson is a better player. Please enlighten me (all of us) on how you reached that conclusion of yours because you're inferring things that aren't there.

You didn't "obliterate" any point. If you believe Mike Wallace is worth Desean Jackson money, then so be it. I don't. Drop stats don't tell the whole story...sorry, that's just me. I am not a Mike Wallace hater. I hope he comes back. But he's not as complete a WR as many here think he is. What's interesting about these "drop" numbers is that they suggest Jabar gaffney has better hands than larry Fitzgerald and that Mike Wallace has better hands than Greg Jennings. Neither is true. These "stats" don't tell us who is capable of 'fighting for" the football. Mike Wallace isn't a "fight for the football" type of WR. I am not saying he is supposed to be, but if he wants top dollars, he has to be willing to rip the ball away from his defender. Instead, I tend to see it happening the other way around.

Have at it, pal. And when you're done, show me evidence that I am a "hater." Am I not allowed to be critical of certain components of his game? Am I not allowed to voice an opinion that he isn't worth the money he's suggesting? Am I not allowed to voice an opinion that he's soft? None of this means I think Wallace should be kicked to the curb, rather that he's not a receiving God.

 

Bud...nobody said you aren't aloud to be critical. Just like we are allowed to disagree with your unsupported critical opinions (for good reason IMO). And you could come out on top of this discussion (or borderline flame war) if you backed up your opinions with some actual proof. The fact that you have posted in this thread so many times without doing so though leads me to believe that you don't really have any.