Mike Wallace haters

If you guys were in his position you would do the same thing, enough with the he's holding out OTA'S aren't mandatory. Some of Steelers fans act like he should take whatever the Steelers offer the guy is in the prime of his career and first chance to get paid of course he's looking for big $$. Wallace has until June 10 to report I think that's the date then the team can reduce his salary to around 500,000 if he doesn't report by then. I don't blame him for not showing up for OTA'S without a longterm deal what if he gets injured before signing a big contract. Fans are kidding themselves if they think he will play for 5 or 6 million a year when lesser receivers got paid like Garcon, Desean Jackson, Vincent Jackson with 40 to 50 million dollar contracts. Wallace doesn't deserve Fitzgerald type money and I don't think the Steelers should overpay him either. Fans always bring up Wallace dropoff in the second half last season part of it was teams were rolling coverages his way, which allowed Brown to flourish and Big Ben injury had a effect too Ben was missing throws when Wallace was wide open. I know he had some drops too but speed kills not too many receivers can make a play like that 95 yd td catch against Arizona.

 

Mike isn't in DeSean jackson's league.

 

Once again there is only so much money to go around,The Steelers will have to decide
if it will go to Wallace or Brown. Remember when Plaxico Burress was here with Hines Ward
Remember when Peezy and Aaron Smith were here. Some become rich Steelers some become rich
on other teams. Say you work a job@25/hr. but the going rate for this job is 35/hr.Will you feel slighted?

 

We kept Ward for way cheaper then he was worth.Championships bring on more money ,respect,and endorsements.If Wallace want a career on a championship caliber team then stay but if he want fitz type money then go elsewhere to get your money ...youngin'.The steelers will be fine either way.

 

if the steelers gave wallace jackson, garcon and jackson money, they would be overpaying him.

 

First off Jackson is no better than Wallace. Jackson's just another WR getting paid too much. I'd rather have Wallace than Jackson, period.

On a positive note, Tomlin has reported that Wallace has in fact picked up his new playbook. So although he may not participate in OTA's at least he's giving the impression that he's going to study the new offense.
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/05/mi ... -playbook/

 

lets put this into perspective. Lets say he signs a 5 year deal worth 50 Million dollars. Say he catches 100 balls per season. Thats 500 receptions for 50 Million dollars. Thats $100,000.00 per reception. No way do I pay a WR $100,000 per catch. The problem isnt with his talent , its with his EGO!!! Players need to be realistic in their demands for more money. Wallace is a very good receiver, he is not in the top echelon in the NFL in my opinion for many reasons. I do like having him on my team though because he has to be accounted for strictly on speed alone. Skill wise though he isnt top tier, so he shouldnt get top tier money. I understand the WANT to get as much as possible as soon as possible mentality, but with real world economics and being on a team, sooner or later reality has to set in!!

 

Sorry, not to sound like a jerk but that's a pretty ignorant statement.

Mike Wallace
2009: 16 GP, 4 Starts, 39 REC, 756 YARDS, 6 TD
2010: 16 GP, 16 Starts, 60 REC, 1257 YARDS, 10 TD
2011: 16 GP, 14 Starts, 72 REC, 1193 YARDS, 8 TD
TOTALS: 48 GP, 34 Starts, 171 REC, 3206 YARDS, 24 TD

Desean Jackson
2008: 16 GP, 15 Starts, 62 REC, 912 YARDS, 2 TD
2009: 15 GP, 15 Starts, 63 REC, 1167 YARDS, 9 TD
2010: 14 GP, 14 Starts, 47 REC, 1056 YARDS, 6 TD
2011: 15 GP, 15 Starts, 58 REC, 961 YARDS, 4 TD
TOTALS: 60 GP, 59 Starts, 230 REC, 4096 YARDS, 21 TD


WALLACE AVERAGES:
57 REC, 1068 YARDS, 8 TD - Per Season
3.6 REC, 67 YARDS, 0.5 TD - Per Game Played

JACKSON AVERAGES:
58 REC, 1024 YARDS, 5 TD - Per Season
3.8 REC, 68 YARDS, 0.35 TD - Per Game Played

 

jackson also gets paid for his kick returning ability as well

 

I always love the "You would do the same thing in your job" argument. Lets say you run a company. You have an employee that signed with your company for $20 an hour. Was told what he needed to do, given some performance incentives and some assurances. This person does the job above expectations for the year. He may not be the best employee in the US at what he does but he is doing it well at your work place, making himself a standout. He researches and finds out that the #1 guy in the country at his position is making $40 an hour and he decides, since he feels he is the best at your work place, that he is worth $40 dollars an hour. He leaves you with a few choices. First, you have been around a while and run a business. You believe you have a pretty good idea what a person is worth at each position in your company and you, definitely, know what you can afford. You know this person deserves a raise for his performance but also understand that he may not be as good as the $40 an hour guy who comes from a company that has a bigger budget than you.
You tell your guy that you are willing to pay him $30 an hour, a substantial raise that you feel shows him value while not breaking your bank. Your guy says, "You know I really think I'm worth $40 and, by the way, while your deciding if I am worth it I won't come to work".
Now...taking all that into account how can you even begin to translate that into what you would do at your work place? First, if someone at my work said he wasn't coming in until we decided he was worth what he thought he was worth, well, he would be waiting for a call back until he is blue in the face. Second, all work places, aside from sports and entertainment, have pretty strict budgets and know they can only afford what they can afford. Third, and most importantly, this stuff isn't realistic enough to equate to what we in the "real" world would do. Really put yourself in a professional athlete's shoe and tell me, honestly, that you could get away with the things that they do. Personally, I would be happy if I got a chance to play and make the money that some of these athletes make. I can't fathom the money they make and certainly can't begin to tell you what I would do in their shoes...I live in the world where my value has been decided long before I was hear and where the risks are known ahead of time so it would do me no good to go back later and cry because I got hurt doing something I know could have hurt me!

 

True, but those that call Wallace a one trick pony, can see from the numbers that he's a much more all around receiver than jackson is.

What's more impressive is that Jackson was a starter in the Eagles offense from day 1, where Wallace didn't see the field a lot as a rookie (only 4 starts), however, he's caught up to Jackson is their averages despite that fact... Wallace has also gotten better where Jackson has regressed slightly.

Also, Andy Reid has consistently lead the league in passing over rushing percentage for his whole career.

 

Jackson will make the tough catches. Wallace is soft. A receiver's job is to CATCH THE FOOTBALL. I'd have to do the research, but three big drops that come off the top of my head: two of them in SB XLV, one that went through his hands into a Packer defender and ended up as an INT on ben's stat sheet and one he couldn't hang on to during the final 2:00 drive. Then there's the drop in the playoffs last season against Denver.

So you can throw all the numbers out there that you want, but in a close game, late, when the Steelers need a big reception, Wallace isn't the guy I want the ball thrown to. Sorry. DeSean jackson is money. Mike...uh, not so much.

 

lol it's funny you want to talk about drops, when Jackson has drops AND colossal bonehead errors throughout his career.

 

I think we get wrapped up in individual players. It doesn't matter to me if Wallace is there or not. We got by with a lesser receiving corp. I support whoever is on the field as I root for the "steelers" not "players". I haven't had a favorite player since Jack Lambert. It's been awhile. I just want them to win and continue to field a championship caliber team.

I think Wallace is a talent but not worth breaking the bank for. I'm hoping with him not being around it will give the other receivers more reps and time to develop to point he might not be around after this year or at least we have four very capable receivers that will only make us better.

 

Nah, don't worry about research or even remembering properly. We've got you covered.

I've never seen evidence that Wallace is soft; in fact, I see evidence that he's not. I'm not saying he goes out of his way to be tough like Hines Ward or Antonio Brown, but I think he's pretty typical for a wide receiver. He does not avoid contact when he has the ball in his hands and is actually very good at breaking tackles for a skinner guy. He goes across the middle when asked and makes catches there, although he does spend way more of his time running streaks than other receivers, for obvious reasons. Despite what you've read on message boards and cooked up in your own mind, he doesn't get alligator arms, the SB INT was Ben's fault and a nice play by Bush (evidence below), and the final one isn't a drop because the ball was knocked out of his hands by a the CB (AKA defense, evidence below). If you're looking to blame someone, the people are there (Keyaron Fox, Ben, Kemo). You're just missing. As for the Denver drop, well, you got me there. He did bobble the ball and it hit the ground in a manner which is technically a drop in today's game, even though it wouldn't have been a few years ago. But of all the receivers I ever imagined someone would pull out as tougher (that's laughable) and with better hands (see below), I never thought it would be Desean Jackson.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...e-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/ In 2011, Wallace dropped 4 balls out of 76 opportunities -- not targets, but catchable opportunities -- good enough for a drop rate of 5.26% and tied for 11th best in the league. Desean Jackson dropped 9 balls out of 67 catchable opportunities, good enough for a drop rate of 13.43% and 76th in the league (that's 16th from the bottom).

Then again, Wallace doesn't really have the team first attitude that Jackson has. Sure, Jackson flat out stopped trying to play football in the middle of games last year, but he was right to do so because of his contract status. Wallace has done far worse, by missing part of training camp in the future and then letting his problems leak out onto the field, again, in the future. It's fair for us to judge him on that.

[youtube:srwbqxzx]rUD5oW91Pv4[/youtube:srwbqxzx]
Please, go ahead and argue that you can see the ball go through Wallace's hands and into Bush's. We're listening. Never mind the tight double coverage on Wallace, the more open Hines Ward, or the WIDE open Heath Miller with his hand up, streaking towards the end zone.

[youtube:srwbqxzx]uU5eCPmcCFQ[/youtube:srwbqxzx]
Skip to 2:45. Please pay no attention to the DB making a great play by slapping the ball out right out, or the throw that was towards and not away from the coverage, or -- again -- the open Heath Miller waiting to pick up the first down. Oh, or the stats supplied by SBD.

 

Nah, don't worry about research or even remembering properly. We've got you covered.

I've never seen evidence that Wallace is soft; in fact, I see evidence that he's not. I'm not saying he goes out of his way to be tough like Hines Ward or Antonio Brown, but I think he's pretty typical for a wide receiver. He does not avoid contact when he has the ball in his hands and is actually very good at breaking tackles for a skinner guy. He goes across the middle when asked and makes catches there, although he does spend way more of his time running streaks than other receivers, for obvious reasons. Despite what you've read on message boards and cooked up in your own mind, he doesn't get alligator arms, the SB INT was Ben's fault and a nice play by Bush (evidence below), and the final one isn't a drop because the ball was knocked out of his hands by a the CB (AKA defense, evidence below). If you're looking to blame someone, the people are there (Keyaron Fox, Ben, Kemo). You're just missing. As for the Denver drop, well, you got me there. He did bobble the ball and it hit the ground in a manner which is technically a drop in today's game, even though it wouldn't have been a few years ago. But of all the receivers I ever imagined someone would pull out as tougher (that's laughable) and with better hands (see below), I never thought it would be Desean Jackson.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...e-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/ In 2011, Wallace dropped 4 balls out of 76 opportunities -- not targets, but catchable opportunities -- good enough for a drop rate of 5.26% and tied for 11th best in the league. Desean Jackson dropped 9 balls out of 67 catchable opportunities, good enough for a drop rate of 13.43% and 76th in the league (that's 16th from the bottom).

Then again, Wallace doesn't really have the team first attitude that Jackson has. Sure, Jackson flat out stopped trying to play football in the middle of games last year, but he was right to do so because of his contract status. Wallace has done far worse, by missing part of training camp in the future and then letting his problems leak out onto the field, again, in the future. It's fair for us to judge him on that.

[youtube:23ipv889]rUD5oW91Pv4[/youtube:23ipv889]
Please, go ahead and argue that you can see the ball go through Wallace's hands and into Bush's. We're listening. Never mind the tight double coverage on Wallace, the more open Hines Ward, or the WIDE open Heath Miller with his hand up, streaking towards the end zone.

[youtube:23ipv889]uU5eCPmcCFQ[/youtube:23ipv889]
Skip to 2:45. Please pay no attention to the DB making a great play by slapping the ball out right out, or the throw that was towards and not away from the coverage, or -- again -- the open Heath Miller waiting to pick up the first down. Oh, or the stats supplied by SBD.[/quote]

The video footage doesn't help us. So it's not covering anything. And you're sidestepping the argument by whining about where Roethlisberger SHOULD have thrown the ball. What the eff does that have to do with Wallace's receiving skills? Stick to the topic.

 

That shut me up. Sorry I sidestepped by completely obliterating every point you tried to make, and then adding on an additional point that was a little bit off topic (but not entirely, because it has to do with your misplaced blame; to say Wallace was the cause of that INT or the incompletion is inaccurate and unfair. The line about the INT winding up "on Ben's stat sheet" seems to clear him of all wrongdoing, when it was pretty much entirely his fault, but whatever). Won't happen again.

 

@12to88
What the heck are you talking about dude. He gave you a massive write up defending his point and you point to 1 slightly off-topic comment about Ben to say that he's "side stepping"? Seems you're side stepping to me, by ignoring the whole point of his post.

How do the videos not help?!? In that first one Mike gets completely pancaked by 2 defenders. How the world could you blame that on Wallace?

Some people form their misguided opinions, mostly because they want to convince themselves why we don't need Mike anyway if he wants more money... and will keep that opinion regardless of the fact that people put the facts right in front of them.



HugeSnack has given some evidence to back up his claim, care to do the same? Show me a real example of Wallace being "soft."

 

I completely agree with all those stats, videos, and lengthy paragraphs. If Wallace is soft he sure does keep it a secret. Is he going to jump 50 ft in the air like Megatron? Nope. But he is still going for that ball. I've said before that there seems to be a preconceived notion that fast WR's like him are all soft, but it can never seem to be supported by actual proof or even evidence.

 

Nice post Snack. I just don't get why some say Wallace is soft or is afraid to go over the middle or take a hit. I've never seen any evidence of it myself. And even if someone could point to an instance of this I guarantee they couldn't show multiple instances of this happening. It's just not true. It would be a rarity if at all.

And to point to D Jackson as an example of what Wallace should be???? Laughable

 

He either plays for 5 Mil or so a year or he signs his tender or he sits.....The way the new O is shaping up his value is going down each day.....With the use of PA and Haley wanting to get the ball out quick and use the RB'S and TE'S in the passing game he better sign his Tender and get into camp and earn some plays in the playbook...

Another huge thing working against him is his blocking skills....In the Gap system the WR'S need to block well,a lot of there routes are off of PA where they block then run the quick route....If the WR is a poor blocker then the D will never over play it and force their way past him to fill the whole which opens the space where they are to catch the ball....

I have ran a lot of Gap system stuff and Wallace is in danger of not being a factor at all....The more he lets Brown and Sanders show their stuff the less his value is going to be....If I was his agent I would tell him get to camp right now show them just how good you are,convince Haley that he must have you while I work on the deal....Holding out is doing him no good at all in this situation there is nothing for him to gain.....

Heck Haley might even be saying I don't really need him to make my O work,not saying that's the case ,but it very well could be....After all Haley did say he Loved Miller no mention of Loving Wallace.....As I stated in the other thread the Gap system is based on PA and throws to the RB'S and TE'S a lot different than the BA stuff that got Wallace most of his yards...

 

Beautiful posts Snack, the disrespect Wallace gets is seriously on the level with what Ben got early in his career and sometimes even now from the national media. Except in this case it comes from Steeler fans, and it seems the media and other teams fans think more highly of Wallace than alot of people on here. It's so frustrating because just like when people would argue Ben wasn't that good, the people who argue Wallace is soft, or a one trick pony or has no hands are doing one of three things. 1 lying to themselves, 2 lying to us about their true feelings(for some reason?) or exercising some sort of personal dislike. If you use your eye's when watching the games...or just go watch Wallace highlights. He can break tackles, run after the catch, has good hands and can absolutely run more than a streak. It's there on tape just look at it, it's fact, the stuff you guys use to argue against Wallace is not. Just like when people would argue that Ben couldn't throw from in the pocket... which just wasn't fact if you watched him play.

You need a big time catch? Packers last second TD with no time left on clock??? I guess you forgot about that somehow? Because it was an awesome game.

The arguments people use to bash Wallace are just pathetic and it's also pathetic that I hear them mostly from Steeler nation......and not the media or other fans.

 

The kids tape does have some holes .....
The first being he is a poor blocker,a lot of WR'S are and I don't care for any of them that much....
The 2nd. being he does have alligator arms across the middle ...The tape shows if the ball is high he will not extend for it....
The 3rd. being he doesn't hustle between plays ....He walks to the LOS and he walks back to the huddle pouting after the play a lot...
The 4th. being he doesn't run good decoy routes ,when the play is designed away he takes the play off...

IMO these reasons are exactly why no Team wanted him for a 1st. round pick...Now add in the rumor of wanting Fitz money and all this adds up to a me guy IMO....You don't see Fitz dodging blocks.You don't see Fitz not going up as high as he possibly can to get a ball...You don't see Fitz walking when it's a run play or the play is going the other way...

So to me Wallace is a Good WR ,but not great because of the details,now he is holding out not working on those details.....IMO he is not worth more than 5 Mil a year...I also believe that is close to the value the Steelers have on him....I think he wants 9 or so and that's just not going to happen.....If they thought he was worth that they would have tagged him and not took a chance on him leaving....

 

If you're referring to me, where in any of my posts did I state that Jackson served as an "example"? I simply made the point that I believe Jackson is a better player. Please enlighten me (all of us) on how you reached that conclusion of yours because you're inferring things that aren't there.