Mayock says Poe = Ngata

Gotta admit I haven't been payin much attention to the Dontario Poe at 24 talk, because I think we'd be okay with McClendon/Ziggy/late round pick at NT...

However Mike Mayock is saying Poe reminds him of Ngata... "He's that big, but he's so raw it's scary." If he's anywhere near Ngata's level he'd be a steal at 24

 

Yeah, I was waiting for that comparison, since everyone talks about how well he can move for his size. If he was that good, I wouldn't feel so bad about spending yet another 1st rounder on the DL.

He'd still be behind DeCastro in my book though.

 

No doubt. but DeCastro will go in the 12-15 range.

 

Yeah, DeCastro will not make it to the 24th pick. Realistically, I only see a few top notch players falling to us. Poe, Adams, Glenn or Hightower. One of these four individuals should be our number one pick. The problem, if all four are there at 24, who do you pick?

I say Poe.

 

I don't expect DeCastro to to make it to 24, but if he makes it into the mid-late teens, I'd trade up for him.

 

Although OG is the position the Steelers should be concentrating on,
A NT is also a need for this team, hopefully one that can get after the QB.
If Mayock thinks this kid is Ngata like than yes this could be our number one pick.

 

If he could be like Ngata it would be great, but Ngata doesn't really play the NT in that defense. Sometimes he does depending on down and distance, but not often.

Poe is a large dude I think he is 6' 4" or 6' 5". I think NT's need that short man leverage, we need a guy in the 6' 1" 6' 2" range.

Honestly I don't think Poe drops to the Steelers, especially if scouts think he does have position versatility to play NT.

 

Not sure what you mean about versatility to play NT, he IS a NT.

 

Can he play either DT or NT in any system? If Mayock says he is Ngata then he is saying he is a DT/3-4 DE not a NT.

Ngata is not a fulltime NT. Looks like Memphis ran a 4-3 too. So he is not technically a 3-4 NT...not yet at least.

 

The ravens run a 3-4 and a 4-3 depending on what offensive scheme they're defending. Ngata plays NT in both and is a beast playing the 4-3 NT ( 1- tech ). Hood and McLendon could maybe be effective playing the 1-tech ( 1 gap ) but we need a two gap zero tech and I believe Poe is that man. Can you imagine when we go nickel and leave Poe and Heyward on the line.....

Cajun-

 

Terrence Cody is the NT on that team and he replaced Kelly Gregg before him. Ngata does play on the nose in a few instances, but he is NOT a NT. I'm not saying Poe is not a NT, I'm just saying it is not a given. Some guys are better suited for different schemes than others. With his height he might be a 3-4 DE instead, and that is not what we need.

 

Ngata mostly plays DE in the 3-4. They move him around, but that's his base position.

 

Okay, now I'm gonna have to go back and re-watch the steeler/ravens games and key in on Ngata. Just from a causal watch I've seen him Play mostly interior DL. I've seen see him on the nose and in the "A" gap from both the 4-3 set and the 3-4 set. I know Cody is listed as the NT and Ngata as DT but honestly I've seen Suggs hand in the dirt 4-3 DE more than Cody on the field. I have to be honest I haven't noticed Ngata playing 3-4 DE. I also haven't watched him closely either.

Cajun-

 

Positional listings don't always mean that much anyway. Guys like Suggs and Demarcus Ware are listed as linebackers, and the talking heads out there rank them ahead of our James Harrison as pass rushers. But they rush the passer basically every single play. I heard a stat that two years ago, Ware dropped into coverage 6 times in the entire year. Six. Harrison drops back over twice that much every single game. Ware rushes the passer like a million more times and comes away with 3 more sacks, and they think he's better... Sorry, tangent... The point is he's a defensive end, listed as a linebacker. It took 3 years before the Steelers started calling David Johnson a FB/TE. Before that he was listed as a TE, even though he lined up at fullback far more often.

But as for the Ravens, I'm not sure about early in his career, but in recent years they've had Gregg at NT, and now Cody, as another poster mentioned. He's been DE for at least the last few years. Although he probably slides inside like Ziggy and Keisel do on passing downs.

 

i've seen hicks name kicked around for the steelers too. he's a twofer as far as DE/NT. real raw though but big and fast.

 

You're really missing the point. Are you telling me if we could draft a young Haloti Ngata but have to play him at NT that you would pass? Yes, the Ravens move him around I think mostly because they want to take advantage of his pass rushing ability even from a 3-4 scheme (rare), but he would still be a top 5 NT in the NFL.

 

I just want to know if it is a given he would be a great 3-4 NT being he is a 4-3 DT in college and they are comparing him to a 3-4 DE on the Ravens. Add the fact he is 6' 5" where leverage is going to be an issue.

Aaron Smith was a great player, but I wouldn't play him at NT. I don't think the Ravens would want to play Ngata full time at NT either.

Would you really sink 3 first round picks on 3-4 DE's : Hood, Heyward, and Poe????

My opinion is the jury is still that he is a true 3-4 NT. I don't deny he is a good player, but is he a good fit at Hampton's position? I really don't even think he falls to us...

 

About Ngata- You guys keep saying he's a 3-4 DE. Why? Ravens web site list him as a DT. Ok, that means little. Ngata very own website he says he's a DT. That means a little more but still not enough. Proof is in the pudding so what does the tape say? After going back and re-watching willie parkers last game vs the ravens and then this years two steeler/raven games one thing is very clear. The ravens defense is more flexible during gametime in the way they move their players than I previously thought and I knew they made many shifts & adjustments. Ngata's primary position is 4-3 DT. Not 3-4 DE. These are probably the two most similar positions in football and distinguishing the difference is quite hard. He attacks the OG more than anything but I've seen him lineup at zero tech when cody was out and 5-tech when redding was out. He does move around alot but home seems to be 4-3 DT. I've seen Gregg shift to 1 tech ( 4-3 NT ) while Ngata played the other 4-3 DT.
Bottom line is Ngata is NOT locked into a single position due to his unique size/strenght/speed combo and his disruptive style of play. Players like him you MUST fine a place for him on the field regardless of your scheme. If you wanted to be a strict 3-4 defense he could be your NT or even DE. And yes, Aaron smith has played NT for us in emergency situations, he too was THAT special. If you wanted a strict 4-3 defense Ngata could play both DTs positions. I would trade both Hood and McLendon and a 6th rd draft pick to Balt for Ngata, I like his play thast much.

If Mayock says Poe is equal to Ngata or very very close to him and if that is in fact the case then we MUST draft this guy 1st rd and I don't care how many 1st rd DL picks we have already. And please, No-One call Poe a 3-4 DE. That's just silly.

Cajun-

 

Thats cool and the gang... I've never heard of a 6' 5" NT though.

Lebeau will most certainly have to adjust his 3-4... and I'm sure he can, but I was just hoping for more of a traditional NT anchor like Hampton that Lebeau's defense is used to.

 

Why would leverage be an issue? Or the fact that he was in a 4-3 in college? Very few teams play 3-4 in college. Their job is penetrate and eat up blockers, it's not rocket science. And he's listed at 6'5" What's 1 or 2 inches compared to some NT's in the NFL?

Phil Taylor: 6'4"
Haloti Ngata: 6'4"
Sione Puhua: 6'3"
Terrence Cody: 6'4"
Paul Soliai: 6'4"

 

I wasn't missing anything. I was just correcting an error about Ngata.

As for Poe, if he is some kind of Ngata clone, then yes I would take him. I would take Ngata to play NT. In fact, I don't feel like looking it up, but I thought he used to be NT for them when he was first drafted. I'm not saying he can't do it, I'm just saying that NT is not really his position. That'd be like calling Ziggy a NT. Ziggy lines up at DE, DT, and sometimes right over the center. But I'd still call him a DE if I'm labeling him something since that's what he does the most.

Poe still isn't my top choice for a number of reasons. There are guys I'd rather have at other positions, and I'm still not convinced he's as good as Ngata. If we did take him, we'd have 4 starters on the 3 man DL (Keisel, Heyward, Ziggy, Poe). Who sits on the bench? One of the first round draft picks? Or the best player? If the draft unfolds poorly for us, and he is the best choice available, I would consider taking him only if he was going to play NT for us, or if we were planning on moving Ziggy to NT. No way do we take another DE in the top 5 rounds unless he or Ziggy is moving to NT.

 

Mayock doesn't say Poe is as good as Ngata or realy anything like that, he says he has a "physical skill set that reminds me of Haloti Ngata" and "I don't think he's Haloti Ngata, [but] he's that big and he's got those kind of movement skills.". He then goes on to say "he's so raw, it's scary. He might not make a tackle year one. You know what I mean? He's one of those guys."

Sounds like you are drafting an athlete and hoping he becomes a football player and that he'll basically not contribute in year one. That said, that isn't uncommon for drafted DL's for the Steelers.

 

I think everyone is aware Ngata isn't a "pure" NT, the point is if Poe has anything close to Ngata's skill set then you draft him in a heartbeat. If you want to argue he's not as good as Ngata, then sure there's that argument...

But the fact us we need a NT. Sure we CAN move Ziggy there but I don't like it. He's too young to be messing around with like that. In my opinion moving Timmons back and forth between OLB and ILB has stunted his growth as an ILB. As for your comment about 4 starting DL, man you can never have too many. And Kiesel has maybe 2 good years left if that... He could use the rotation.

 

I like depth on the DL as much as anyone, but there might be such a thing as too many starters. With 4, one or some of them will be spending tons of time on the bench. The logical choice is Poe, but he's the one that plays the position we need. Also, 4 starters (including 3 first round picks from the last 4 years) on a 3 man line sounds great, but we've only got two or three starters on a 5 man offensive line. That's real bad.

 

I like depth on the DL as much as anyone, but there might be such a thing as too many starters. With 4, one or some of them will be spending tons of time on the bench. The logical choice is Poe, but he's the one that plays the position we need. Also, 4 starters (including 3 first round picks from the last 4 years) on a 3 man line sounds great, but we've only got two or three starters on a 5 man offensive line. That's real bad.[/quote:f8t5qicu]

Where do you guys get that from and why do ya'll keep saying it? The last 4 1st rd draft picks were Heyward,Pouncey,Hood, Mendy. Hampton would make another 1st rd selection but he was back in 01' and this is 12'. He's getting old and with another knee injury ( acl) needing surgery he's probably a pup candidate if he isn't released/injury settlement. Hoke is gone so NT is that need. A. Smith has yet to announce his retirement and since he restructured last year he is a steeler this year, yes he could play this year. We don't have 4 solid starters on the DL. Keisel yes. Then who? An under performing Hood. A second year Heyward ( who I'm really hoping he shows something special). McLendon? Please no. A. Smith who's oft injuryed and may still retire? Hampton and his messed up knees?

We may need Poe more than ya'll think. Smith,Hampton,Hoke GONE!! Keisel aging! Hood not living up to his projected ability! Drafting a high profile ILB to replace Farrior will be pointless if our 2-gap Dlineman can't do their job and right now only one is left who has shown he can consistantly do just that---Brett. Jury still out on Heyward.

Cajun-