Mason may be #2

“I’ve had that since day one. That’s not an issue with me. You can command the huddle when you know what you’re doing.”

Love this comment from the article. Don’t want to get too excited at this point, but I see a Peyton Manning-like quality with this guy. Seems very heady and serious about the playbook.

 

Blast... please listen. Lend me your ear just this once.



I know you are a moderator. I also know you are one of the most reputed members on the board. I get that. You have a role to perform to oversee the administration of the boards members and uphold the conduct policy. However, I do leave you with a grave warning;



You do NOT want to go through with this. As I am sure you have been aware, there is an unthinkable, colossal, immense level of Bulverism you are dealing with right now.



Trust me on this one. Save yourself the headache. You are still needed here. No reason to rapidly develop any sort of neurological pain.

 

i don’t see me ever working this word into a conversation.

 

You can.


The word itself is not that difficult to use.

 

Well said. Below is my point of view.




Here is the main aspect that many people do not seem to understand about the situation regarding Landry Jones; both Jimmy Garappolo and Nick Foles directly changed the backup position FOREVER. Now, once seen as a mere contingency plan in case of your starting quarterback goes dow , backup quarterbacks are now suddenly a hot commodity. This also means something else; inflation of value. However, Pittsburgh, dating back to the NFL-AFL Merger, have constantly had quality backups. Why the NFL is now beginning to catch onto this is something that I still have not the foggiest.



Case in point? Landry Jones is not likely going to be a Steeler in 2019 to begin with. Should Dobbs showcase great progess during the 2018 Preseason, it is likely Jones will be traded due to these new set of circumstances. Due to this, his experience in games no less, his trade value should be sufficient enough for a team needing a quality backup to negotiate with.



Side Note:



Again, to those reading this, this as, once more, under the assumption that Dobbs has taken leaps and bounds in year two.

 

Favre was stuck at third string all of his rookie season and went on to be one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history. How is that not relevant?

Nobody was giving Brady a second thought after his rookie season. It wasn't until his second season that he showed he had a real future in the league.

Sure, the reasoning was different, but it is possible that Rudolph won't get a real shot at No. 2 this season. Jones knows the offense, which will at least carry some of the playbook and terminology over from last season. They may favor different things and add some new wrinkles, but they aren't going to change that much. Roethlisberger's problems with Haley seemed to be personal more than anything.

The way it is relevant to the conversation is that Jones has an advantage over Rudolph. He also has years with Fichtner. That relationship matters. He has worked with Brown and Bell. He has worked quite a bit with Smith-Schuster. Those relationships matter.

The Steelers may just want to go with the veteran they trust as No. 2. That wouldn't be a reflection on Rudolph's ability. They know Jones can come on in relief during a game and make plays. He's the safer bet, and that has value for a contender.

My point is, Rudolph could sit as the No. 3 quarterback all season and that might not reflect his future at all. Now if he isn't even No. 2 in 2019, then I would be concerned about this being a wasted draft pick. To say it at any point in 2018 seems premature.

 

Please, just stop. Blast and I are having a civil, logical conversation. If you'd like to join in on the content of that conversation, please do. If you're just going to come after me again, show the board more courtesy than that. Thank you.

 

This I don't see ("definitely before seasons end").
We know that the backup QB gets very few snaps during the regular season. The 3rd QB gets essentially zero. If Ben (and presumably Landry) stay healthy, Mason won't be participating enough in the practices to change the coaches's minds.

I agree with Formerscribe. If Mason starts the season at #3, he is locked in there until next pre-season. He won't be given an opportunity to change that, barring injury.

 

? Come after you again?


Care to elaborate?

 

Why do I need to answer questions to which you already know the answer? Talk about the topic or move along, please. Thank you.

 

That's why I wrote that it could be the same result for different reasons. Rudolph might not get a real shot at being No. 2 this year if the team goes with the safe bet, the veteran. Favre didn't get a shot, either, but for different reasons.

 

To me a lot will get hashed out in preseason. At the end of the day Mason is still a 3rd Rd. pick. You can't compare favre or Brady or Ben for that matter. Different players, different times, different coaches, different team owners. The only thing they really have in common is the fact they play the same position. With the change of OC, there are going to be some changes made and they will make those changes with Ben. We have a couple of new receivers for Ben to get used to also. The familiarity with these receivers will not be as great with LJ as you may think. Juju has one year, Washington is new, McDonald is still fairly new, so Jones doesn't have a great deal of time with them. Bell not in camp for the second year and only a small sample in the game plan with LJ. AB has most likely limited action with LJ as well. It is less than MR but still not a lot more in the overall scheme of things. LJ has this one year rental status still hanging over him at this point and it will be up to how fast the coaches want to fast track him as opposed to giving a one year guy the reps when they know he's not their future.

 

Yep.


"The more things change, the more they stay the same".



Era's change. Therefore, each Quarterback's performance overall changes as well.



As me and you have both said; analyze both Dobbs and Jones in Training Camp and preseason. Make the final decision based off of that.

 

#2 will be whomever they believe gives them the chance to win if needed. It’s that simple. And who that is certainly can change.

 

I was looking over old stats.
Based on that, I don't think it happened the way you think.

Brady actually started the season at 3rd (Friesz was on the PUP list), and ended the season at 3rd.
The Wikipedia information is from a November article, when Brady was the number 2 QB for the Detroit game.
At season's end (against Miami), Bishop got the snaps, which means Brady was 3rd again.

2000 was Belichick's first season, after taking over for Carroll.
The Patriots were coming off an 8-8 season, and finished the 2000 season at 5-11 (last in the East).
That team was looking for improvement and change. The only QBs ahead of Brady were:
- Bledsoe: starter, until he got injured in 2001
- Friesz: played his 10th and last year as a pro in 2000
- Bishop: a 7th round pick who ended up playing in the Arena league and CFL

So the real question is, why did Brady start and end the 2000 season behind Bishop?
He didn't climb his way to 2nd string until 2001, with his competition being a 7th round pick (Bishop) and a FA who was undrafted in 1996 (Huard).

 

How?

 

The value of the backup position now is far more important today than it ever was. Both those two proved that directly in their own way; Garappolo in 2014 and Noles just this past season.



As I said, once considered a contingency plan is now an absolute necessity. Backups are just going to be "sufficient" or "decent". Backups now have to good, starter capable even, in order for teams to have a shot at the Super Bowl from now on.



Now, do not expect teams to be carrying two high caliber QB's that are very successful starting quarterbacks. I am stating however, that having a good quality starting capable backup far exceeds the alternative.

 

I don't think it's just now days. We had two former starters for a long time in batch and lefty. We were kind of forced to go younger in the QB room after awhile. In a perfect world we would have one that had more experience as a starter. LJ had a shot to be more and if he had been we wouldn't have used draft picks the last two years in that position. I think they feel LJ has reached his potential and even though it's pretty good for a backup, it's not where we want the position to be yet. Dobbs will get a fair shake this year as will MR in camp and preseason.

 

Brady played in 1 game that entire season: the 13th game against Detroit (when he had 3 pass attempts to end the blowout loss). For all we know, maybe Bishop was injured and couldn't be #2 that game?
Bishop played in 8 games that season, including the season closer.
The "emergency 3rd QB" rule was active.
It is unreasonable to think Bishop could have played in all those games (including the closer) and have Brady be #2 (outside of the single Detroit game).

I pointed out that, at least for the Wikipedia info on the NE 2000 season, they referenced a newspaper article that came out during the Detroit game, and somehow concluded that Brady ended the season at #2. Unless you've read something more definitive, I'm guessing those writers saw that Brady was #2 for one game that season, became #2 the next season, and arrived at the wrong conclusion by drawing a straight line between those 2 points.

Edit: More important is probably the situation Brady and Rudolph were/are in.

Brady ended up a 6th rounder, but a few had a 2nd/3rd round grade on him. He was competing against a veteran in his last year, a 7th rounder who ended up in the CFL, and undrafted FA. Brady didn't become the clear #2 until his second year, despite being on the worst team in his division.

Rudolph ended up a 3rd rounder, but a few had a 1st/2nd round grade on him. He is competing against a veteran 4th rounder in his prime, and a 4th rounder on his second season. If Rudolph is #3 this season, he will have had stiffer competition on a winning team looking for stability.

 

This isn't something new. It was a big part of the Bill Walsh philosophy 40 years ago. He believed every team should draft a QB every year. Keep developing the position, you can never have too many capable QB's.