Marino - Gabe Rivera Edmunds - Lamar Jackson

Terrell is physcially gifted the same. That leads me back to my original point; improvement. If Bud can do it, no reason Terrell cannot.



Side note; going for the ball is something not many good pass rushers do without thinking. Bud has been going for the ball each time he goes for the sack. That is instinct as such an ability requires the ability act and react without thinking about the action performed.

 

At least Terrell doesn't look lost. He appears to understand the game. He is young and can improve. Burns has talent but doesn't understand the game from the neck up.

The people who spend countless hours researching players don't get it right the majority of the time. There are no guarantees when it comes to the NFL draft. So how do teams know who is or isn't a "multi-year project"?

 

The biggest issue here is context. Terrell was not supposed to play immediately. Morgan Burnett was the starting Strong Safety. Morgan had not played a full season since 2012. Why that was supposed to change in 2018 is something I have not the foggiest.



Morgan Burnett's injury forced Terrell to play early. The fact that Terrell got better as the season went on is nothing short of impressive. Most rookies being thrown into such a situation would belly up. Terrell did not.

 

People want instant "great player" or "HOF" results out of 1st round players or that player is a bust. People seem to learn nothing.

 

He has been watching Watt, a team leader. I like it.

 

I said it last year and nothing has changed in my opinion. They need to scheme him to play as much as possible around the LOS. Any time he has to turn his back to the ball and is responsible for coverage down the field it’s a losing proposition. Minkah has SS\FS versatility, Edmunds does not. By far his best role is at SS with SS responsibilities, where he can read and react to what is in front of him.

 

This is what I also said regarding Terrell; let him develop from one position as opposed to play musical chairs a la Sean Davis.


Not including Minkah because we had Sean Davis (sadly), this is what Keith Butler SHOULD have done with Terrell Edmunds from the beginning. Not allowing him to do so is going to ruin Terrell in the long run. Again though, that is not a Terrell Edmunds issue but a Keith issue.

 

The entire defense seems to be doing far more of that than in the past. I do wonder where that is coming from, but it's saving their season so far. The one theory I've heard and read is they are just quicker to the ball, which is leading to more fumble recoveries, but they also seem to be a lot more aggressive in trying to strip and punch it free.

I get your premise, that players can still improve even after their second seasons, but there are some flaws in the comparison of Edmunds and Dupree.

It is a bit of a challenge because they play different positions, but I don't buy the premise that Edmunds is as talented as Dupree. Dupree was a consensus first-round value heading into the 2015 draft. Some people worried that he was a project, but I don't remember anybody calling him a reach. Edmunds was not as highly-regarded. There were draft rankings that had him outside the top 100 prospects in the 2018 draft.

Dupree showed the ability to be a playmaker at Kentucky. He had 15.5 tackles for a loss, 9.5 sacks, as a senior. He also had seven sacks as a junior and 6.5 as a sophomore.

Edmunds intercepted only two passes his final season at Virginia Tech, when he was a junior in 2017. He did have four in 2016, but he was hardly a dominant playmaker. He was an athletic guy who could tackle, but the splash plays were mostly absent, especially his final season in college.

Dupree came out of college with a combination of size and speed that stands out at outside linebacker. He was athletic enough for the position at 264 pounds. Edmunds certainly has the athletic ability to play safety in the NFL, but I don't think he stacks up among safeties as well as Dupree does among outside linebackers in terms of physical tools.

Also, while I do think Dupree has improved this season, the change in his production also seems to be linked to the way he is being used. I don't have numbers on this, but doesn't it seem as if the Steelers are letting him attack rather than drop into coverage a lot more?

I still hope Edmunds can prove me wrong, but what we've seen so far is a below-average safety who doesn't make big plays because his ball skills suck.

 

You couldn't have picked a worse player than Bud regarding instincts. If he had any instincts, combined with his physical ability, he'd be an all-pro.

 

Terrell Edmunds could not complete his final season due to a shoulder injury. For that matter, he played the entire season with a bad shoulder overall. We really do not know how well Terrell could have finished had he completed his 2017 campaign. For all we know, Terrell could have lit it up Regarding his draft status as what some thought of him;






Yes, many draft pundits everywhere had him going either as high as a second to as low as a fifth. Keep in mind though that their board is much different than Pittsburgh's. As I have told you, Morgan Burnett screwed up everything; Keith Butler complicating matters even more. The fact that Terrell did not belly up his rookie season is nothing short of impressive.



Overall, Terrell should be used like @HeinzMustard, @Blast Furnace, @Steel_Elvis, @thesteeldeal, me and others have stated all along, play him close to the LOS. Let him develop from there.



Heck, thanks to Minkah, Terrell is having a better year two than most of his 2018 safety classmates that are Strong Safeties; Ronnie Harrison included.

 

What does obtaining multiple strip sacks take?! Instinct. That component of pass rushing cannot be taught by mere pass rushing repitore basics.


Why?! Getting the sack is one aspect of a good play by any pass rusher. Not acting on just getting the sack itself but also acting on chopping the ball from the QBs hands, all in one motion, is another aspect all together. For that matter, those that perform the aforementioned ARE All Pro players.



Don't believe me?! Go ask Von Miller, Joey Bpsa or Khalil Mack on strip sacks. For that matter, you don't have to. Ask T.J. Watt on knocking the football out of the QBs hands without thinking.


Bud has finally learned how to use his instincts in conjuction with his freakish athletic gifts. It may have taken him this long but he has finally been able to do so.

 

I've seen that Tweet from Fowler before. It cites anonymous sources and fails to give a specific number. Several coaches/execs could be four or five. That doesn't mean he was widely seen as a first-round value. It also doesn't counter my point. Even you acknowledge there were rankings that had him as low as the fifth round. Of course, I don't think he would have fallen that far, but the Steelers had a realistic shot at him in the second and perhaps the third. If they had gotten him with one of those picks, I think most of us would be satisfied with the results so far. It's not that they took him, it's that they took him too high.

The injury his final year at Virginia Tech is an excuse or reason why he didn't produce a lot of big plays, but it doesn't prove that he can make them. That was my point. Dupree proved he could be a playmaker at Kentucky. Edmunds did not. They were not comparable talents coming out of college.

 

*sigh.


Agree to disagree then. Much like the 2018 draft, I believe me and you both need to put the selection of Terrell behind us. You think he will be another bust like Artie Burns. I think his trajectory will turn out to be what we see in Dupree today.


Let us bury the proverbial hatchet and move on, yeah?!

 

It's not a source of animosity for me. It's a simple point of disagreement. I figured if we kept going, my next post was also going to mention that we simply aren't going to agree on this.

I will clarify one thing. I do not think he is a bust like Burns. I think he can be an average starting safety in the NFL. I think more should be expected from a first-round pick than average. If they had gotten him where he was projected, or even the second round, I'd like the pick. There really isn't much evidence to support your optimism regarding Edmunds, but you are welcome to your opinion.

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

We have different definitions of the word 'instincts' I guess. My definition is the one in the dictionary.

 

No worries, he obviously will have the Dupree 5 year plan to see improvement

 

Terrell may pick up some tips from Minkah. I have to agree with scribe on his draft position, hasn't shown first round talent. Not his fault really, he had no say in when he was drafted.

 

I'm sure the same thing was said about Burns early in his tenure here, another 1st rounder who didn't produce as expected. But give him time, he'll develop. First year adjustment, second year slump, third year injury, fourth year the cloaking device runs out of batteries and it becomes obvious to our coaching staff that he simply sucks. We don't have four years for another defensive back project to fail.

 

Jackson is a big reason for the Ravens resurgence. The other is finally emerging from the cap disaster that Flacco's back-loaded contract created.

 

More trash talk?!

 

A "simplistic analysis" is all that is needed. If the boy couldn't run like he does he ain't ****.

 

He's a more than capable passer and may currently be the best player in the NFL.

 

Let's try this. As it stands right now, which is his biggest asset, his arm or his legs? If you say arm, then my argument is wrong. But, I would be shocked if that were your choice. And "best player in the NFL", come on.

 

That is a false premise. Just because he is an even better runner, that doesn’t diminish what Jackson can do as a passer. To this point, he has been the best player in the league.

 

Lamar Jackson is having a great year. But he will be figured out.