1. Hi Guest, Registrations are now open. See you on the inside.
    Dismiss Notice

Management Finally Gets It

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by STEELWINDS, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019
    Hey Everyone.

    I think Steelers’ Management finally gets “It” after years of trying to build a team solely through the Draft and Acquisitions of “Mid-Tier” Veteran players. It seems that this was the year that the light finally went on for them to review and partially change this mode of thinking. Maybe in part, the injury of Ben lead to this. I will not get into that theory here though.

    In a roundabout way, our historical success has lead to some of our draft woes. Because we typically have a non-losing season, we are rarely in position to draft within the top 10. Hey that is okay by me. That would mean that given the prior season we were as I say “Significant” and that is great. However, it catches up with the team after awhile. Therefore, you must be willing to negotiate to move up in the Draft which they rarely do and give up something(s). Polamalu and Bush are the last two that I recall as far as a draft move-up and there is a 16 year gap in between when they were drafted. This year’s Defense has proven this concept of thinking: Fitzgerald, Nelson, Haden, Barron.

    As far as the acquisitions of Veteran players, they very rarely went after the "Big and the Bad". Jerome Bettis, James Farrior. No one else I can think of right now.

    Hopefully, this is the beginning, and maintenance, of some new and contemporary thinking.


    STEELWINDS
    AKA The East Side Kid



    Below: "Steelwinds Sports Complex East" Never forget one's humble beginnings.


    Steelwinds Sports Complex.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. steelersrock151

    steelersrock151 Well-Known Member

    3,125
    1,322
    Nov 18, 2011
    traded up in 2006 for santonio homes, 1st round. Super Bowl MVP.
     
  3. steelersrock151

    steelersrock151 Well-Known Member

    3,125
    1,322
    Nov 18, 2011
    Not that I disagree with you. Fitzpatrick is probably the smartest move, draft, trade, or free agent signing, that they've made in decades.
     
  4. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

    21,265
    5,113
    Apr 21, 2016
    While I do agree with you @STEELWINDS the aspect of Pittsburgh building through the draft is essential, I disagree about the Front Office "finally getting it" overall. The acquisition to obtain Casey Hampton was to trade back if I recall to start out and is a good starting point for my rebuttal. Lawrence Timmons had a great run in Pittsburgh despite his limited accolades. Cameron Hewyard, assuming he continues his level of play, is likely to earn his second First Team All Pro nod and David DeCastro has been arguably the best guard in the AFC and one of the best overall in all of the NFL. Heck, Ryan Shazier was well within striking distance of earning DPOY before Decemebr 4th of 2017.



    Free Agency and the draft should compliment one another. Neither should be above the other barring extreme circumstances; the 2015 Denver Broncos being the most recent example. The whole conception of going all in does have some rewards but also contains more risks as well. Since 2015, what have the Broncos done exactly?! Yes, it did amount to a Super Bowl but they have not been the same since. The 2015-2018 Jacksonville Jaguars spent more money than any other team in the AFC in that span yet it amounted to only one AFC Championship appearance. The most recent example is Cleveland trading away picks to load up for a Super Bowl run in both Odell Beckham Jr and Olivier Vernon. How is that working out?!?!



    By comparison, Pittsburgh has remained competitve throughout the decade. Since 2000, only New England surpasses Pittsburgh. Kevin Colbert has had his shortcomings in the draft but his successes far outweigh his failures.



    Overall, how Pittsburgh conducts their football operations during the Offseason has been fine with me as it has consistently produced results. Players like Devin Bush, Troy Polamalu and Minkah Fitzpatrick are the pinnalce of outliers for the franchise as those players far exceeded the general circumstances the team has been placed in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019
    Hey steelersrock151.

    Thank you. I forgot about the Holmes move. Man, he was good. Obviously, there was IMO, the "Greatest" catch in Super Bowl history that he made. And dare I say, the "Greatest" catch ever made in NFL history. Not just for the physical skill that it took but the pressure of it and what was on the line. Of course, I must give Ben his due. A perfectly thrown ball over three defenders where only Holmes could get it. Holmes single-handedly lead that drive I think with the exception of one catch by Nate Washington; which did result in a 1st down I believe. Good job Nate! I loved his attitude prior to that drive about "Time to be Great". He talked the talk and walked the walk. I am getting jacked just thinking about it 10 years later. Given that, I will always remember how him and Ben would run that slant pattern to perfection. What a thing of beauty.

    I still cannot believe we only got a 5th rounder for him. However, Holmes like AB was a victim of his own stupidity and immaturity. Management gave him plenty of chances to get it together but he just couldn't do it. Another potential HOF that just threw it all away. Hey, maybe he will get the HOF on the merits of that catch alone (smile). Anyway, no hate or animosity here towards Santonio, only love; regardless, of how his Steeler career ended. I wish him nothing but the best.

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  6. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

    12,643
    2,157
    Apr 26, 2012
    You do know we traded for Bettis ?
     
  7. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019
    Hey steelersrock151.

    In regards to this year, I cannot disagree with you there. I think he is the biggest difference-maker for this year's New and Improved "D". I know we picked up Haden last year, I think. Then we added Barron and Nelson this year but yes, when Fitzpatrick came aboard it seems it was some type of mystical (Troy-Like) catalyst to bring it altogether. Whatever it may be, it has in big part helped to salvage our season up to this point and still has us as I say "Significant".

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  8. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019
    Hey biggbunch68.

    Yes, you are right about The Bus. I guess I kind of just "grouped" these acquisition of Veteran players altogether from other teams whether it was trade or via free-agency. I know you get the point. Sorry about any confusion on my part.

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  9. BigBensBigBong

    BigBensBigBong Well-Known Member

    5,731
    847
    Dec 14, 2014
    Bettis was awesome. I remember the day we got him from the Rams and I was very happy. A perfect fit for us.

    I can`t think of a better FA pick up. Minkah might be #2 best, but more time needed. I`m having difficulty thinking up a top ten list of FA`s for some reason.

    Whoops. Just remembered Kevin Green but he didn`t last long.
     
  10. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019

    Hey AskQuestionsLater.

    You make some excellent points. I did not even think about the "Trading Back" concept with "Big Snack". And a Super Yes on your quote: "Free Agency and the draft should compliment one another". You are right in the sense that "we do not sell out the farm" for the hope of one glorious season pretty much knowing that will be it and place us in a rebuilding mode for years to come. This is why we are competitive for the most part each and every season.

    One of the worst things for a fan is that scenario unfolding. You do not win the Super Bowl. And now you do not know how long it will take to become competitive again or as I say "Significant".

    And although I give Colbert and company their due credit as you do, I think they have been somewhat reluctant in years past to go "all-in" in a sense like they did this/last year with the acquisitions of more higher ceiling Veteran players like Haden, Barron, Nelson, and Fitzpatrick. Again, all in a very short span of time in between their collective acquisitions.

    in regards to drafting, oh yes, they have been historically very successful. Proof as with your listing of the players you mentioned and many more that you did not (we would be here all night with that list, smile). On a side note: What a sad way for things to go for Ryan Shazier. Now he was a real "Difference-Maker". I just hope first and foremost he can continue on the path to a full "Normal" recovery of life from his injury. If by chance he ever plays again then even better! And by even greater chance, if he does play again, and picks up where he left off then even Super Better!!!! Management is to be commended on the continuation of keeping him employed. This is why we are the Steelers. Not perfect but the classiest team in the NFL IMO. Good Stuff AQL. Take care.


    STEELWINDS
    AKA The East Side Kid
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

    2,648
    405
    Oct 23, 2011
    Like the organization doesn't know how to win. LMAO. The organization "gets it" better than the fans. People who are overly critical don't get it. Fans have all the answers and always know better. LMAO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019
    Hey BURGH43STEL.

    I just wrote you a very extensive post on Tomlin. I hope you read it.

    http://thesteelersfans.com/forums/threads/tomlin-coach-of-the-year.23416/page-17#post-742915

    Given that, I never stated say that "the organization doesn't know how to win". The proof is in the pudding on that one. I am 100% on board with you on that. The gist of the post was to get Management on board with not relying on the draft too much and upgrading the quality of Veteran Player Acquisitions. To find the right blend.

    Obviously, I am not Management but by their acquisitions of players like Fitzpatrick, Barron, Nelson and Haden they did do just that. What I am surprised about regarding this, is that they acquired all of these top-flight players seemingly all at once.

    Again, they have been very successful in the draft. History has shown that also. They have had some clunkers but for the most part very, very successful. As I stated, when you are drafting later in the first round, this usually indicates that you were competitive that previous season which is a good thing. However, it catches up with you eventually as you are not getting one of those "Top Ten" supposed "Blue Chip" picks that are usually considered "Guaranteed" as it is going to get. That is just he way the league is set up it as it is intentionally done to try to create parity. Take care.


    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  13. LambertsDentist

    LambertsDentist Well-Known Member

    603
    287
    Aug 13, 2014
    Fixed it for you.
     
  14. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019
    Hey LambertsDentist.

    Nice! I forgot that part. Thank you.


    STEELWINDS
    AKA The East Side Kid
     
  15. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019
    Hey BigBensBigBong.

    Yes, Kevin Greene was a huge acquisition. Him along with Greg Lloyd were sheer awesome. Weren't they, in part, the start of the term "Blitzburgh"? I think so. I go over this from time to time. With those Cowher defenses, that included Greene and Lloyd, IF we had a franchise QB we probably have several more Rings. That is why, I know for me personally, how much I appreciate Ben. And to think that Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews from Arkansas. Good thing management overruled him on that one.

    It is just too bad that Cowher only worked with Ben for three years for whatever the reason(s) were. I heard from his wife's illness which I could and completely agree with if that lead to his leaving. I also heard there were contract issues as far as certain control of administrative issues. I am not sure exactly what lead to his leaving.

    Back to the Ben point. Cowher really only a "Healthy Ben" for his first two years. Remember year three; the near death motorcycle accident and the emergency appendix operation for Ben? That had to take a toll on his body. It would of for any just regular person. And he was playing a punishing sport of professional football! We started out 2-6 but finished 6-2. His body was probably getting back to some sense of "Normalization" during the second half of the season IMO.

    That is why I get P-Oed when some people try to make the Cowher-Tomlin argument about well if Cowher was so much better than Tomlin then what happened in that Cowher/Ben Year #3. Well there, I just explained it for any rationale individual to understand. Take care.


    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. BK99

    BK99 Well-Known Member

    822
    42
    Oct 25, 2011
    Just to throw a little wrinkle on your memory of the "Greatest Catch" in SB history. I do agree with the assessment of that play being the greatest catch but he did let an easy TD catch go right through his hands the play before. That miss almost made me stroke out!!! Everyone remembers his catch but how many remember that miss?
     
  17. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

    2,648
    405
    Oct 23, 2011
    It's never easy to find the right blend of players. They always dipped into free agency. Sometimes they made the right decisions and sometimes they did not.

    There was a time in the league that teams didn't trade away players for draft picks during the season. Times have changed and now the Steelers used that to their advantage.
     
  18. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

    27,700
    5,275
    Oct 22, 2011
    We have up a lot to get some help to the defense and cheapens the offense in return. Not so sure they get it quite yet.

    Two firsts a second and a third for two players. Gnats pretty steep but they have helped.

    Barron, as much as some would like to argue, has done well for us and so has nelson.

    Keeping alualu was a wise move as it turns out.

    On the flip side.

    VW as much as some love him has played ok at times but we also have a ton of money tied up in his part time butt. That won't change any time soon either which hurts for what he does. Fort and bosticare having pretty good seasons.

    Tuitt, although playing well, is out yet again. He also ties up a lot of money which won't end anytime soon.

    We have a waste of a first and second round picks that probably won't be with this team next year in burns and davis.

    Chickillo is a big paycheck for little return player as well.

    now let's get to two players we may or may Not be able to keep that help this defense do what they do. Dupree and hargraves.

    We also have a draft pick that looked good but can't get on the field because of the Vince salary. Gilbert.

    We have a ton of money tied up in 3 part time players on defense.

    We have and had three pretty worthless players at wr. That this management brought in. Holten, switzer and moncrief.

    to sum it up, we made a couple of good moves that were very costly, and will suffer with some prior moves that may cost us some other good players. I'm not ready to anoint this front office as getting it at all, we have many problems to deal with going forward and very little to fix it with come that time.:cool:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

    27,700
    5,275
    Oct 22, 2011
    We have used a lot to get some help to the defense and cheapens the offense in return. Not so sure they get it quite yet.

    Two firsts a second and a third for two players. That is pretty steep but they have helped.

    Barron, as much as some would like to argue, has done well for us and so has nelson.

    Keeping alualu was a wise move as it turns out.

    On the flip side.

    VW as much as some love him has played ok at times but we also have a ton of money tied up in his part time butt. That won't change any time soon either which hurts for what he does. Fort and bostic are having pretty good seasons.

    Tuitt, although playing well, is out yet again. He also ties up a lot of money which won't end anytime soon.

    We have a waste of a first and second round picks that probably won't be with this team next year in burns and davis.

    Chickillo is a big paycheck for little return player as well.

    now let's get to two players we may or may Not be able to keep that help this defense do what they do. Dupree and hargraves.

    We also have a draft pick that looked good but can't get on the field because of the Vince salary. Gilbert.

    We have a ton of money tied up in 3 part time players on defense.

    We have and had three pretty worthless players at wr. That this management brought in. Holten, switzer and moncrief.

    to sum it up, we made a couple of good moves that were very costly, and will suffer with some prior moves that may cost us some other good players. I'm not ready to anoint this front office as getting it at all, we have many problems to deal with going forward and very little to fix it with come that time.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  20. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

    15,297
    4,320
    Nov 4, 2011
    I think management always got it, they just made some draft day decisions that have not panned out well (which happens to every team). Where I think we have lagged behind some teams is in adjusting to the most recent CBA that allows players to become unrestricted after 4 years. IMO that change necessitates being more active in both free agency and via trades because you can no longer hold the rights to all of your best drafted players for 6 years without spending big.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  21. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019
    Hey Bk99.

    Oh no! Trust me I do remember that "miss"....vividly. I was thinking about it as I wrote that post. Yes, it had me flipping out at that moment, you "stroking out", and the rest of the Steeler fans whatever "out" they chose to have (smile). I guess the somewhat comforting thing at that time was that we could kick the FG at worst and possibly go into OT.

    Also, you can focus on the one miss but how about all of the catches that he single-handedly made to lead the Steelers down the field to get to the point of the miss? Like I stated, except for the one catch by Nate Washington, Holmes made every catch on that drive and obviously the eventual game winner. Remember, he "Dared to be Great" and he was!

    Hey, but like they say for any blunders in sports, you have to have a short-memory and just move onto the next play. That is what they did. LaMarr Woodley seals the deal with the game ending sack and the rest is history. Thank goodness it all turned out A-OK. Still, as a PE Teacher, Coach and a fan, that catch, and throw, was one of the most amazing athletic feats that I ever witnessed. Take care.


    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  22. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

    14,304
    2,167
    Oct 26, 2011
    Mgmt has gotten it for the last 50 years.
     
  23. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

    2,766
    576
    Oct 8, 2017
    We have the luxury of only being wrong on paper. Our infinite wisdom is never scrutinized by a pink slip after a bad decision actually wrecks a season or someone's future. There are no repercussions to face as a fan making organizational decisions. So we can, and do, make them with abandon. :scared:
     
  24. steelersrock151

    steelersrock151 Well-Known Member

    3,125
    1,322
    Nov 18, 2011
    I said in decades. That was almost 23 years ago.
     
  25. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

    12,643
    2,157
    Apr 26, 2012
    So your idea of decades is less than 20 years ?
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1

Share This Page

Welcome to the ultimate resource for Steelers fans. Sign Up Here!