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List your top 3 draft needs

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by cajunyankee, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Mac, this is a great post and really one we(I) haven't thought much about. We have talked about our secondary being bad but if I recalled it started really going bad when Troy lost a step. Maybe we really need to make S a top priority as like you say the TE's are killing us and this is becoming more and more of a TE league. One name that was mention awhile ago and has fallen off that may be a very nice fit for us is Su'a Cravens. I am going to make him my next guy to watch, I guess he is a LB/S???? Might be just what this defense is looking for, anyone have thoughts on him????
     
  2. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    In my view the "in the box" safety is going the way of the nose tackle. It's not really relevant to sub -package football that's played 70% of the time unless that guy is the 5th DB playing a hybrid S/LB kind of role. We have a guy with that capability in Shazier. I'd rather have Shazier and 4 true DBs on the field than Shazier, another S/LB hybrid and 3 true DBs unless we're playing against someone that does a lot of gimmicky read option stuff and has limited ability to pass. We need better safety play, but we need it in pass defense - primarily against WRs. I want 1 or 2 safeties in this draft, but I want them to be first and foremost pass defenders. Our terrible ranking vs. the pass last year wasn't the result of not having a 220 lb thumping in the box safety. It was the result of not having quality guys in coverage - with an emphasis on Will Allen at safety IMO. So, yes to safety, no to safety/LB hybrid IMO.
     
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  3. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Good info SE I see where you are going with that. So with what you just said we should bring back Holliman............lol sorry couldn't resist!!!!1 :shrug:
     
  4. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Yeah... Ok :duel:

    Big difference between needing to tackle (which is crucial for a safety to be able to do in both run and pass defense), and being an in the box hybrid guy. Tackling is certainly not optional... Or at least it won't be optional for as long as the NFL is a tackle football league and not a flag league (though we may be headed there!)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    my only reason to even think ilb would be if we want to replace timmons and that may not be to far off. it would have to be a guy like lee if it was up to me. a guy that can run well, and he can. shazier and lee in the middle would fix alot. let's face it timmons is good but he's aging quickly and has alot of miles on him now. big fast good coverage, good tackling safeties along with a couple of quick, good tackling corners will do wonders. add another guy that can run and come off the edge with size like dupree would also be a must. we would become hard to handle then. :cool:
     
  6. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    The only reason I could see us replacing Timmons in this draft is if we've tried to do a modest extension and his camp has said "no way, we want a huge extension or nothing." He's got 3 good years left - as long as those 3 years aren't hugely expensive. I haven't watched film of Lee yet, but he definitely didn't stand out to me when I've watched other OSU players. To be frank, the OSU linebacker that I did notice was Perry. I need to watch him more in coverage, but he's a physical presence. If we go small at both ILB spots AND have no bona fide nose tackle, our run defense could turn into a significant weakness.
     
  7. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    Please don't say that.
     
  8. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    timmons may not want 3 more years. that would also be 13 years on him. waiting at that position to fill the void is a concern since we have lost some depth there already. timmons would continue to play but we could also have a guy that can get some reps while he's here. shazier has never made a full season either. as far as our run defense suffering, i don't think it would if we do the other things i'd like to see happen with our front and our backends. lee is a talent and will probably get better as a pro. he's a shazier clone but maybe with a better head. :cool:
     
  9. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    If we are gonna talk about an ILB a guy I really like a ton in Matakevich for Temple. the knock on him is he is slow but damn man every time I watch him is around the ball. Another guy I want to check out cause I like the little I saw was Wright from Arizona. I have seen much on him but he caught my eye in the little I saw. But back to Cravens I haven't watched him at all but what I read I thought would fit our defense. An OLB who can pass cover I think would fit this D when we go into this hybrid system we are running. I have to see this kid to get a better feel.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
  10. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Mac...just for you, I'll put Lee on my list to watch next. However, we are a now team, and we could use a guy who can push for significant minutes at corner, edge rusher, safety or D line. That's 4 potential day 1 impact positions for our 1st rounder instead of getting someone who may only get a chance to play significant minutes if we have an injury. I'd like to get an ILB, but not that early.
     
  11. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    none that can run like him elvis. i hear you about these other positions and i think lee could have some worth as a pass rusher too. his versatility helps his cause for me alot. i still like nkemdiche too as a guy that could be very versatile. i'm really mixed on him and his troubles. i do think there are some guys we could still get in day two or three that would work as well. matt judon comes to mind as a bookend to dupree. i'll give you one more for later in the draft at ilb too, kwiatowski from wv. very productive kid. could be there in the 6th. there are many ways to go in this one.:cool:
     
  12. turtle

    turtle

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    just started watching Stanford v Iowa. Want to take a look at LB Blake Martinez. 6'2 240 4.6 in the 40 or thereabouts.

    wow, McCaffery first play results in TD!
     
  13. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    I never really thought about Cravens as an option for us but maybe I too need to break out the film on him. I definitely would like for us to add a olb somewhere in the 3rd round and beyond but to be truthful, weather inside or outside, we need to take the best lb on the board period. With depth being a little shaky.
     
  14. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    Is lee less injury prone?
     
  15. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    seems to be, though you can never gauge injuries. :cool:
     
  16. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Ok, I watched Lee's games vs. MSU & Notre Dame in 2015 and Alabama in 2014. There are similarities between his play and Shazier's play in college, but in every comparison between the two I think Lee comes out on the short end. My biggest concern is that he seems to lack even the minimum amount of strength to be an inside backer. He needs to be running free and clear of blockers to make plays. When a blocker locks on, he's usually done. I'm not just talking about linemen, I'm talking about backs and tight ends. He's effective getting ball carriers to the ground in space, but the runner almost always falls forward because he's not very strong. He's got tremendous range to go sideline to sideline. I see a 4-3 Will backer. Use him inside, and he'd better hit the weight room. He's a good football player, but I know for sure that he won't be the BPA on my board at #25.

    One thing about watching him was that I also saw different games from a couple of other OSU players that I've been watching. I keep on getting more and more comfortable that Apple's physicality is adequate enough to take him at #25. He is really good in coverage downfield, and is adequate (for a corner) as a tackler. Vonn Bell, on the other hand, looks ok but nothing special to me. I don't see him as being even close to the top safety in this year's deep safety class. There's nothing about him that stands out.
     
  17. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    that was the knock on shazier too. very similar size and quickness numbers.

    as for bell his stregnth is he anticipates the play pretty well and doesn't get out of position much.

    powell too. how cool would it be to see grant, bell, apple and powell on the field for us? they were a good group together in college minus a couple of hiccups. chemistry? i guess i'm at an advantage of having watched them every week. along with bosa, lee, perry, shazier, heyward, washington and all the others on offense. heck even will allen back in the day. lol:lolol::cool:
     
  18. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Is Powell the safety who wore #23? He seemed ok as a late round prospect. He was around the ball a lot. I didn't see a lot in whoever wore #8 and played corner opposite Apple. He looked to me like the weakest link in the secondary.
     
  19. turtle

    turtle

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    Watched Blake Martinez ILB Stanford last night and ironically, steeler depot did a profile this morning as well. I saw most of the things they noted. I thought he was flat footed or stopped his feet in coverage. Sometimes grabby downfield. He is a very high volume tackler and good with form, etc. I didn't think he got off blocks from the off lineman very well. Depot said otherwise, but I only watched this game vs Iowa. Nothing special overall.
     
  20. turtle

    turtle

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    #8 is Gareon Conley, he's a junior.
     
  21. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Just as I suspected A very good football player,BUT we have all seen these 220 lb line backers, they don't work in the NFL. Hell Shazier
    has now, after 2years he has built himself into NFL material and he still can't stay on the field? I want lb's that when they hit you
    the offensive player is not going to fall forward majority of the time. These tweeners, as I like to call them struggle in the NFL because
    they can't cover like a safety and and don't have enough strength/girth to shed OL. We want Ray Lewis type inside LB's.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    There is something to be said for a real thumper of a linebacker. Ah, the good old days. LOL
     
  23. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    Didn't Lambert only weigh 220?;)

    I know I know, different era.

    I am someone who values speed at the LB position. Speed and instincts.

    There not alot of guys that weigh 250+ that can move sideline to sideline. Those guys are special.
     
  24. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    This thread is about our top three draft needs......... and I have changed my top three several times as these change and other things become more clear so it is a fluid situation for sure. I love the conversations on potential players and positions of need that they may fill.................... that being said------

    OUTSIDE LBer or moreover EdgeRusher has come to be a serious NEED.........

    If Deebo comes back this will be his last year...... Jarvis Jones,being a former 1st rnder has a 5th yr option that must be decided on soon. No and he becomes a UFA next year. Yes and his 2017 salary approches 8 million..... crazy money for what he's done so far. Dupree is exactly what I thought he would be, a dissappointment in production in 2015 but still has solid upside and I believe he'll improve in 2016 but it may be 2017 before he truly becomes a Force, aka woodley or Greene or Gildon or Deebo or Lloyd or Porter. This is where he should be, where we need him to be.

    In 2017 we could be withou Deebo & Jones left with Moats,Dupree and Chickallo............. and whoever we draft this year!!!!!!!!!

    CB may be the presumed top need but maybe...just maybe..... EdgeRusher is our true top need..... Looks like I need to do some more simulator drafts!!!

    Cajun-
     
  25. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    The OL of that era were250- 260, now they are all over 300
    Ray Lewis could and the RB usually didn't fall forward. Mendenhall come to mind? Oh he broke my $$$$ing shoulder Timmons
    did in his early days. Nobody is disputing that speed wins, but you have to have the hammer.
    to show that rb that your not going to stand for it.
     

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