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List your top 3 draft needs

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by cajunyankee, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    gays game has gotten better but wasn't as bad as most make it out either. no i don't buy it was because of lakes coaching that made the difference either. gay played in the SB for us as a rookie when rookies didn't play here. that alone shows he had some skills. i liken his growth to deshea townsends career. good 3rd options for years and part time starters for stretches and with years of service turned into decent starters later in their careers.

    were or are either shut down corners? no, but have enough skill to not make mistakes, tackle well and give you solid 60 minutes every week. players do get better dean. especially guys that had some talent to start with. gay does. it come with being a veteran and seeing different things over the years and learning from mistakes. even before when he did make some mistakes, he still made a lot more positive plays then he did mistakes. by far. sure we need revamped in the secondary, but guys like gay are invaluable until the new guys are ready. gay is the only vet presence we have as a corner. :cool:
     
  2. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Gay may not have been playing as bad as people would complain about but he certainly wasn't playing good either. He took a big step forward under Lake, from back up player to starter. That same year, Lewis also credits Lake with turning his own game around and putting in extra work with him. His improved play was why they let Gay go to Arizona in the first place.

    Like it or not, Lake has done some good things here.
     
  3. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna chime in even though this is a "needs" and not a bash gay thread. Safeties are broken up into two positions, FS & SS because they require independent skill sets. CB are classified differently also.... Outside and slot for similar reasons. This is where you all are struggling it seems because outside CB should be broken into 2 classes , press coverage & off coverage. Sherman, Revis and Peterson great press CB.

    Gay was a solid slot CB and solid tackler keeping the receiver in front of him in DL soft off coverage system and making the tackle even in run support. He was among the team leaders in tackles every year Rarely getting beat.

    Now he's playing outside due to a lack of CB and is doing a good job. He'll never be a press CB but in a zone he plays well and you're dismissing him and not acknowledging his valued contribution to our team. Not only does he not get beat, but his YAC allowed is amongst the best and he's the team leader in pick 6's ..... In history!!! And don't forget how many Great CB we've had over the years .....

    Honestly , to continue to call him garbage, roadkill , cornball speaks more of you than him. He's a locker room leader On and off the field.

    Cajun
     
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  4. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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  5. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Actually, Blake took a step forward when they acquired him (as did McCain whom them brought over the same time). Blake was primarily a gunner before coming here, he actually made good contributions to the defense his first season, it wasn't until this year when MT insisted on trotting him out every week as a starter that he played poorly. That's not on Lake, there are starters and there are backups, Blake is not a starter.

    Shark never took a step forward, just another draft pick not to pan out.

    Im not sure any coach could make this group a top ranked secondary.
     
  6. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    All that locker room leader stuff is good if your a quality leader. If your not, that doesn't mean squat. We need to upgrade in the secondary and that may not immediately translate to Gay, but ultimately it will.
     
  7. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    shamarko played pretty well his rookie year and yes blake took a step back. cortez started out promising and steadily declined. you coach what you have and we have been moving in the wrong direction. ike and troy even declined under lake. sure age was a factor but the decline happened under him and got ugly quick. not to mention all the players that couldn't even make it out of camp. even grant hasn't produced as of yet. at some point it has to be about coaching because there are way to many duds happening. :cool:
     
  8. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Yeah, I disagree with all that, none of thats true except about Cortez and even that was more them falling in love with some late season turnovers that he produced.
     
  9. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    well i guess the 30th ranked secondary is a gleaming testament to the success he's had here. really? none of thats true huh? :facepalm::cool:
     
  10. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Sorry, Mac, I stopped taking this conversation seriously when you tried blaming Troy and Ikes decline on Lake. Told me all I need to know. :rolleyes: :facepalm:

    Anyway, think we hijacked Cajun thread long enough, I think Lake has done a good job, you don't, no biggie.
     
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  11. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    cool.:smiley1::cool:
     
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  12. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    Wow...

    Haven't seen anyone ever take a shoot at Lake and his coaching ability. I dont know if its fair to evaluate a coach when he has such piss poor talent to work with. But, this is a forum where everyone's voice counts.
     
  13. turtle

    turtle

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    This has been debated before in other threads. Can anyone here really give an accurate judgement on Lake's coaching - good or bad? I don't think so, for obvious reasons. But you bring up the point about not having good talent. Evaluations are part of the position coaches job. Randy Fichtner goes to pro days, James Daniels goes to pro days, James Saxon goes to pro days, etc. I'm sure Lake goes as well. I know the evaluations overall are a group effort but something is definitely amiss. Can you blame Lake?? Again we can't say for certainty, but some of the ones he brought in haven't even lasted thru TC. Golson could have been a good indicator last year since he was drafted high. Sucks he got injured and we couldn't see how he progressed.
     
  14. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya. But the Gm we have doesn't put a lot of stock in the backend position and I submit to you his drafting track record refusal to use a first round pick on a cornerback. Lake can only work with what is ultimately given to him.

    You let Phil Jackson come down and coach those sorry Knicks and watch them get their butts kicked just as much as they are getting it now. You need talent for coaching to make a difference.
     
  15. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Oh boy here we go again.......always comes back to Colberts fault. Did you call into Movin the Chains Friday cause they had a caller saying the same thing and Pat Kirwan brought up a nice point. Since 2010 we have draft 6 starters in the 1st round 2 of them ALL PRO. I posted this to you before but you choose to ignore it and continue to bash Colbert. OUR SECONDARY SUCKS we all agree with you but come on the last draft we invested a 2nd and 4th towards it. Not his fault the 2nd was out for the season, not to mention the number of 1st round lb's we have to try to improve the pass rush which what.........HELPS THE SECONDARY!!!!!!!
     
  16. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Oh crap just watched the weather and it is gonna be 35 with a chance of snow today........God damn you Colbert!!!!!!!! :facepalm:
     
  17. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if you felt I ignored a point. Didn't mean to. Okay,

    When it comes to actual players being taken, who else is there to blame? He's the GM! He hear's what Tomlin and the coaches say are needs and he makes the call at the end of the day. As far as you making excuses for him, you go to last year when he used a 2nd and a 4th. So what? What happened the 4 previous years? He was bottom barrell crapping for the 4 previous years with little to no real attempts to get 'REAL" talent back there. Then, in a soft year for CB's he's uses a 2nd and a 4th? And that makes it okay?

    If he had some nuts, he goes and moves up ahead of Kansas City and we take Marcus Peters (who even I had as the best cornerback in the draft; off-field issues) instead of the Chiefs. Chiefs let everyone know 2 days before that Peters was who they liked and Colbert sat there and made NO MOVE. This idea of " what I need is just going to fall to me" is crap. And he's said this many of times of he waits for what "falls" to him in the first round.

    Good cornerbacks are like good quarterbacks; they are at a premium. A lot of the time, you have to go get them if you really want them. Now this year, because of the deep. deep defensive class of edge rushers and DT's, and how the pass rush was so highlighted in the Super Bowl, CB's are being pushed down the draft board. We will have an opportunity to possibly see Eli Apple or Willie Jackson. Both are worth a first round selection.

    And I can tell you right now, the Kansas City Chiefs have targeted Willie Jackson to pair with Peters and they will take him if we don't. My brothers live in Wichita, Kansas and that's the talk back in Wichita. Makes sense since they just lost Sean Smith to the Raiders.
     
  18. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    We can talk about all the edge rushers, OLB's and the like. But here's the bottom line,

    **We have maybe 3 good years left in Big Ben; An elite QB in this league. And the main thing keeping us from a Super Bowl appearance is our secondary. Make no mistake about it. This casual talk about the secondary that has gone on with fans and the FO is the reason why we haven't sniffed an AFC championship in a while now. Until we (the front office) get with the times and understand that talent in the secondary is just as important as talent on the D-line and linebackers, we will not be sniffing any Super Bowl appearances any time soon.

    Yes, a good pass rush can cover for a bad secondary. We've all seen that take place. But I also saw what just won the last three Super Bowls: SHERMAN, REVIS, TALIB! You've got to have a number one cornerback. A guy who you can say, " go cover him" which allows the rest of the the defense to double-team other threats on an offense.

    Colbert............get with the times! This isn't 2002 anymore. This is a passing league more so then ever before and at the end of the day, you need talent in the secondary.
     
  19. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    You do realize that before the draft board gets finalized, a list of prospects is presented to Art Rooney and he'll remove anyone he deems a character risk. Peters never had a chance to come here, even if Colbert wanted him, wasn't going to happen.

    So, according to your post, they should have been addressing the secondary the way they have been focusing on the defensive line the last several years? Ok, great, so now the problem is reversed is all, they'd have a good secondary (assuming they drafted well) and the line would still need to be fixed. One hand washes the other, need a good back half and front half.

    Steelers believe in building from the front to the back, a philosophy I agree with. Secondary is the last unit that needs fixing, an area they started addressing early last year with a 2nd rd pick. I'm sure they will continue to address it early this draft.
     
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  20. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    Super Bowl MVP Von Miller pass rushed that defense to a title. Both times the Giants won bs the patsies is was directly due to a 4 man front pressuring Brady... The FO correctly said we must improve pass defense..... That just doesn't mean secondary!!! It can be argued a great pass rush is as valued as much if not more than a covering secondary.... You give the top 10 QB in the NFL time they WILL dissect any secondary

    Cajun
     
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  21. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Super Bowl MVP Von Miller pass rushed that defense to a title. Both times the Giants won bs the patsies is was directly due to a 4 man front pressuring Brady... The FO correctly said we must improve pass defense..... That just doesn't mean secondary!!! It can be argued a great pass rush is as valued as much if not more than a covering secondary.... You give the top 10 QB in the NFL time they WILL dissect any secondary

    Cajun[/QUOTE]

    How true you are, attack and watch the W's build and secondary get better. Return to Blitzburgh and watch
    the stands be full again with passion and excitement.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    No need for you to be sorry and your totally in your right with your opinion however when you come on here and bash our GM who continues to hit with 1st rounder after 1st rounder I can't agree. What pick do you want to change Jones is the only pick we could say was bad, Pouncey and Decastro.....ok let's not protect our QB. Heyward, Shazier or Dupree sorry LB has always been our key position on Defense.

    Other then 2008 our draft have been good, especially in the last 5 years. Ok so we haven't drafted a CB in the 1st round I guess we could have:

    2010 we picked Pouncey at 18 other choices...Jackson, McCourty, Wilson, Robinson
    2011 we picked Heyward at 31 other choices..Dowling, Williams, Moore
    2012 we picked Decastro at 24 other choices..H. Smith, Jenkins went #7 in the 2nd round
    2013 we picked Jones at 17 other choices..Reid, Trufant, Rhodes, Elam...Nice group here
    2014 we picked Shazier at 15 other choices..Pryor, Dix, Dennard, Verrett, Bucannon
    2015 we picked Dupree at 22 other choices...Jones, Randall

    Other then 2013 you can't fault Colbert for not taking a CB in round 1. Again I will agree we need to fix the back end but to keep saying time after time Colbert is ignoring the secondary is stupid. One more thing Peters was never an option, like was pointed out so move on from that. If your a Steeler fan you know we don't take guy with a troubled history, we have taken chances like on Adams but Peters was a lot different deal.

    Picking a CB in the 1st round will make things worse if there are better players out there to be drafted.......
     
  23. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Nice work on the draft alternatives :thumbs up:

    Not sure about Rhodes, Trufant and Reid but Elam hasn't panned out so far, I remember wanting him but hasnt made any impact yet.
     
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  24. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    you can do a lot of things with a good pass rush and we still need to improve the one we have depth wise and starter wise at a spot or two. what i do find fault with and we have pretty much ignored is not just corner early but i believe if we have better safety play it would help as much as corner. in this passing league we almost need good tackling good cover safeties as much as corners. this would be the draft to load up our defense at every level.

    sure a good corner can help a team shut down the other teams #1 guy but if the 2 and 3 guy and the TE are killing you then whats the difference? i'd almost be in favor of a good pass rusher added and a guy like canady added to play more of a FS role, or like what they want to do with grant in moving him back there. we could get by better with a guy like dj white later at corner thats still a decent cover corner that way. it's all got to work as one just not adding one guy to try and fix it all like a corner in the first just to add one. :cool:
     
  25. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Blast, I also liked Elam and I also liked Trufant. :cool:
     

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