Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by cajunyankee, Oct 30, 2015.
he's a good cover guy but he's a small dude. thats my only concern with him.
I think DT just made the top draft need with S a very close second, I think CB and OLB are 3 and 4.
Look, Our chief rival in this division is the Ravens. I dismiss the Bengals.
With that said, do you see how the Ravens are loading up on wide receivers??? And what is our weakest area? Exactly. You keep dismissing the need for a true #1 cornerback while our chief rival is loading up against that very area.
Our number one problem..need, is a real talented # 1 cornerback. Our # 1 problem is our secondary. Anything else and your fooling yourselves. Yes a good pass rush can cover for a lot in the secondary; I admit that but we have little to nothing talent wise in the secondary. It needs to be upgraded in a serious manner.
I too want to add something on that defensive line; for depth purposes if nothing else but we've got to get that secondary up to snuff.
I am assuming you are talking to me so here is the deal. Our biggest need right now is DT, now who do we have? Yes I agree we need to upgrade our secondary and yes we need a true #1 CB but what you forgetting is we have signed right now Gay and Cockrell also added to that we are getting our #2 pick back to throw in the mix along with our 4th rounder. We at least have bodies and should be an improvement over last year especially if they don't bring back Blake. Who do we have listed at DT McCullers and Walton, come on as much as I like both you can't feel comportable with them.
I am with you we do need to improve the secondary I am all for drafting a CB in the 1st AND 3rd. I have said that before in other threads mentioned it just this morning. Also just because a need is number #1 you don't have to make that your first round pick, DT is loaded and I would put money we could get a started guy in any of the 1st 3 rounds. JMO
Definitely agree, you have to see how the board falls.
But that's the problem; All we've done for the last 4 years is put "bodies" in the secondary. And how has that worked out?? Gay is a bum who can really only be used in the slot at this point. Anything else and we are pissing in the wind. And Cockrell...who is he????????? He's a big fat "maybe". You can't have "maybe's" in the secondary. I know more about McCullers then I know about Cockrell.
But I hear you; we do need more on the D-line. Especially at the NT. Can't we do that in the second round? You can find a competent NT in the second round. But cornerbacks go at a premium. But I will say this, the way they let both those guys go tells me that they are going to draft someone for the NT position. It's just a matter of is it the first or second round.
When it's the cornerback position you do; Cornerbacks go at a premium. Or do I need to remind you how Marcus Peters got taken 3 spots before us last year?
There is a good crop of CB this year; good enough that there will be at least two guys who are worthy when we pick. We have to take advantage of that. We can get a good NT in round two.
So are you saying its CB or nothing in round 1?
When did Peters go again lol.
What if they got in rnds 1-3
1.DT or DE
2. CB Fuller (who falls unexpectedly due to injury)
3. Top S rated in this slot
Just don't think you can say we HAVE to go CB in the first. Or maybe they double dip CB in rnds 2 and 3.
Your assessment of Gay is so far off Im not even going to try and convince you otherwise. He's not a #1 but wow are you selling him short.
If you go into the draft thinking I am taking this position no matter what, you end up drafting like the Browns.
There won't be a single dominant CB left at 25 but there very well may be at other positions of need. If so, do you ignore them and take the CB just so you can say "Yaaaay! A CB in the first rd"? Bad draft strategy.
I see Apples name mentioned a lot for us. Depending on who else is there, I'd probably be ok with him because he covers very well but he sure as heck better learn to tackle because anyone who has watched him knows he can't worth a damn. He also needs work on not being blocked out of the play so easily. Definitely not a must have prospect, IMO.
Ok we all get that you hate our secondary, you have made that pretty clear the last couple weeks. However what you have to say about Cockrell and Gay I disagree with. Gay before he left us the 1st time I hated he was out right horrible. Since he has been back here he has been pretty damn good, I think maybe even a little better then good. Cockrell is ok and a serviceable #2 what we need is a solid #1 and another decent S and that would fix a lot if not all of the problem.
They spent 2 of out 1st 4 picks on CB last year that's a start, and oh by the way one of them top picks missed the whole year and is back now....should help. It feels like we come back to the same crap every day with you talking about how bad our pass rush is and how bad Colbert is when in fact things have been done to start to fix the problem.
One last thing that will defiantly stir the pot up but this is just my opinion. What I have watched on Harlan Miller makes me feel that we can get the same value out of him in the 3rd as we could get out of a guy like Apple. I know small school guy blah blah blah watch him on film, if he played at a top college I feel he would be a top 10 pick. He reads the QB better then anyone of the CB's I watched so far, he has that instinct on following the ball and releasing off his guy while the ball is in the air. I know a few guys are gonna crap on this statement but it is what I see while watching film.
This team just doesn't have a lot of options right now but to find a NT between now and the start of the year. I don't really have a problem with it being a young kid either as long as the kid has talent. McCullers played 9% of the teams D snaps last year. That should very easily be able to be made 20%. The problem is McLendon played 30% so you now have a gap. If the new guy can play 20% as well, I would be okay with them as a pick, but if we are going to go NT in the draft, we better go get one of the good ones.
philon, hooks, walton, lyons are what we have right now with tuitt, heyward and mccullers.
I'm sorry but I just don't see how anyone can tout Gay as a good cornerback. He's not. I guess you guys are watching different film or something because when I watch games, he's nothing but road kill.
I hear you, but how many times are we going to keep circumventing using a first round pick on a cornerback? It hasn't worked. Why can't we reverse it the other way for a change and get D-line help later in the second round? Just seems like it's taboo to talk about taking a cornerback with our first round pick.
How things have changed the past 4 months so here is my revised Top 3 draft needs........
1) DL..... Edge Rusher- DE & OLB lines are now blurred. 3-4 vs. 4-3 has become archaic. Nickel, dime, Sub-packages now rule schemes and Hybrids are no longer the intriguing new thing but fast becoming the "key" to great flexible defenses. Point is we must improve pass defense First and that requires a multifaceted approach. Pressuring the QB goes hand in hand with coverage. Controlling the LOS is key and while we have two solid guys that's ALL we have.
2) CB...... We have Gay & Cockerell who are polar opposites in their careers as our current stalwarts...... A Hopeful in Golson and a underperforming overpaid Allen. Boykin is unsigned, Blake is out and Grant is unproven and may move to safety.
3) Safety.... Funny thing is SS & FS are different positions, yet we group them. Kinda like the silly argument who was the better safety, Reed or Troy? We have Mitchell who to me is a SS Playing FS. Golden is a SS so as of now we're starting 2 SS at the backend of the secondary and no real viable backups. Moving Grant to FS may be an option but we'll need a safety, drafted in the first 3 rds if we want to get better.
Gay is a good CB in the Steelers system, he's not a good CB like Revis or Sherman but he doesn't get burnt that often like Blake did. Gay has something like 4 pick-sixes in the last few years.
I get your frustration but just look at something right now, the following are our 1st rd picks from 2010 to last year: Pouncey, Heyward, Decastro, Jones, Shazier and Dupree. Now other then Jones all are pretty good and all have been very good contributors. Now I am not gonna list the 2nd rounders but they are all just as good if not better. So when you say you want a CB in the 1st where would we have picked him?
The obvious pick that stands out to everyone is Dri in the 3rd, but that's it not to bacd of a track record by our front office and coaching staff. Now where I have a problem is in that same DRI draft 2014, that was a deep CB class and we waited until the 5th and took a guy that wasn't on most's radar. Last year we made up a bit for it drafting 2 guys, and the problem was our 2nd rounder got hurt and missed the year. They showed this past year that they know they need to fix that problem however the Steeler way don't allow draft picks to be a major impact their rookie year. I think that is slowly changing but we shall see.
The other point I keep bringing up to ya is you don't have to pick a guy in the 1st round just cause it is a area of need. It will depend on how the board falls but where I think the Steelers have been going wrong is waiting till the 5th and getting guys that just aren't good, like Hawthorne and Richardson. I hope he get both a S and a CB in the 1st 3 rounds this year, if not I may be on your side. But right now I think your not looking at the whole picture. I think we all agree the secondary is a big problem but let's see how the draft goes and then judge, right?
Honestly, I don't think you are watching him at all.
2 Int, 1 returned for a TD
Only starting CB to not allow a TD in 2015.
Yeah, he's roadkill
He had a really nice season for us. Some people won't give him credit, no matter what. The 2 biggest culprits for our back end were Blake and W. Allen, and neither will be back.
gay didn't give up one TD last season.
I like roadkill.........
Roadkill was Blake !!! He set records for most missed tackles (28) & most yards given up in coverage ( 1000+)...... Best thing he did was sign somewhere else to help us in the comp pick calculations next year......
That's funny, so there were two guys in the secondary who were worse; so worse that Gay didn't need to get challenged, so that makes Gay good? Gay is the same William Gay he was in previous years when was the worse player in the secondary and was the one being picked on. Now that there were two worse players then Gay to get picked on, all of a sudden Gay is better? LOL. Gay is a cornball. And as soon as we get better cornerbacks then Gay, he will get picked on and burned like in previous years other then 2015. Gay's game didn't just "elevate" magically.hahahaha
His game improved when Lake came on board. It was pretty obvious.