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Line backers

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by mac daddyo, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    I think differently. Package them all and some more Dupree, , VW. I think your getting back some value
    from somewhere. These guys maybe starters on other teams or better depth for other teams.
     
  2. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Well, you didn’t mention Dupree before. He’s probably worth a 5th - 7th round pick to someone out there. However, we didn’t do anything that would address the OLB spot for 2019, so unless we acquire someone else we would need to rely on Ola, Chick or Sutton stepping up. Dupree isn’t a top player, but he’s a functional starter. I don’t see VW being worth much to someone else. Maybe a 6th - 7th. The rest of the league saw how much our LBs struggled last season.
     
  3. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I hope I'm wrong, but Bush = Dupree. Not great college numbers but athleticism that should produce a difference maker. We just didn't add anyone to seize that potential in a coach. They still think Vince and dirty red are capable. To be honest with better coaching maybe red could have taken the next step.

    I think tj and shazier played above what our coaches were able to give them and they could be even better had we had someone to coach them up. Dupree and Bush may never become elite past their level under these coaches who hope these players play above and beyond to make the coaches look worthy. Who brings in a LB coach in the middle of the season for one game? We won that game by the way. I'm not sure the players are at fault if they don't reach draft status. The wrong LB coach walked out of practice before last year's late game. It should have been like thunder dome. :cool:
     
  4. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    You might not get a 7th round pick for all of them packaged together. SMH at some posters expectations.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    I think you would be surprised. This is where I disagree with Steelers philosophy. They never seem to try
    and better their team by seeing what can be done. You gotta be trying. KC and SD aren't getting any easier to beat.
     
  6. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Wait a minute, Dupree is worth a 5-7 and and we are paying almost 10 million this year?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Ok, a 5th or 6th. I’ll drop the 7th :lolol:
     
  8. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Have to disagree here.



    Bud was RAW coming out of Kentucky. He was moved around quite a bit. Devin Bush Jr. has been playing Linebacker since High School. Massive difference in terms of experience at the positions they play.


    Biggest difference?! Bush's ability to diagnose plays pre snap and have an attack plan during the play. Bud Dupree on the other hand?! Not so much for whatever reason.



    That all being said, I still believe this season comes down to two people:


    1.) Big Ben. You and I both know that he is the driving force here. That being said, no further elaboration need be stated here.


    2.) Devin Bush. Clearly the likes of Art Rooney II, Kevin Colbert and Mike Tomlin see "it" in Bush. Realistically speaking and, now that I have thought about it, I am wondering if Colbert is seeing "it" in Bush the way he saw "it" in Troy back in 2003. The comps. in terms of the two are NEAR IDENTICAL coming out of college. Furthermore, Kevin Colbert trading in the first round is like finding a $100.00 USD bill on the ground; very seldom.
     
  9. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking about speed and ability and our coaches ability to further them.:cool:
     
  10. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Well then....


    Perhaps Devin Bush Jr. can supercede Butler's shortcomings. I would imagine that is one of the reasons the team traded up to get him. As I have said multiple times, Pittsburgh does not get into the Top 10 territory in the draft often.
     
  11. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    We shall see. Draft placement doesn't make you a guarantee of anything. They are expecting a huge uptick in production from his college numbers and with our coaches inability to take them to the next level, I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong but visually I haven't seen it from him or our staff. :cool:
     
  12. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is trading for Dupree or Williams. Both are overpaid and neither is particularly good.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    There is no step for Matakevich to take. He's a special teams player and a below-average reserve at inside linebacker. That's it. He just doesn't have much talent.
     
  14. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    he has a good football iq. Again this staff isn't very good at increasing players abilities. A step up may just be a useful backup but we shall never know. In college he outplayed his physical limitations with smarts. Red does play around the ball when playing, his diagnostics are there, his physical abilities are limited. Leonard and the Colts staff showed last year now this is possible with the right coaching and scheme and attitude change overall. We need that badly here and red could step up a level of we had it. IMO :cool:
     
  15. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    I have seen it from Bush Jr. personally in both 2017 and 2018. Butler definitely is the concern I will concede. That being said though, Butler was also a concern for T.J. Watt. Granted, having a brother who is a Three Time DPOY helps but that alone would not have been enough. Look how he is turning out. I have just as much faith if not more than Bush Jr. can do the same.



    One final aspect that is forgotten about Devin Bush Jr. He has had two HOF Linebackers to ask for advice and can still do should the time call upon it. The first is Ray Lewis, a good friend of Devin's father. The second is Derrick Brooks, his God Father.



    Personally?! I do not think Devin Bush Jr. has much to worry about. For me, he is the other guy to get Pittsburgh to the "Stairway of Seven". For that matter, he is my early favorite for DROY as he possess the traits to do so.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  16. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Leonard also has physical talent, something Matakevich sorely lacks.
     
  17. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    No I agree to that but I think red could be more. Your not talking a great deal of difference in 40 times between them. 4.71 for leonard, 4.79 for red. Neither are blazers yet one is coached to all-pro status and a whole defense revived with a coaching change. The college stats for these two were pretty closely mirrored. Leonard played way above his draft status in the pros and coaching was the reason. I think it's reasonable that with good coaching that red could be more then just a special teamer. The Colts found that and we havent. I'm really not trying to compare these two but just saying the coaching is lacking to get the most out of our players.:cool:
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    You can go back and look at every draft class and find LBs with huge college production, football IQ and heart who don’t make it at the NFL level because they lack the necessary physical traits. I think Red falls into that category. I think he’s already a great story and team member as a special teamer, but IMO that’s his ceiling.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    There is more to physical talent on a football field than a 40-yard dash time. Matakevich lacks quickness, not just straight-ahead speed.
     
  20. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I understand that is not the only measuring stick. I also added their college play in 4 years almost mirrors one another. How all of a sudden one becomes all pro and one has no more steps to take when production almost mirrors each other. Coaching and scheme. One didn't forget how to play the game. Both have good instincts for the position. Both had a 4.50 short shuttle. Both were award winners in college with above average production. I don't buy red can't be coached to another step forward, it's a matter of whos doing the coaching. Another reason I'm not putting too much stock into Bush becoming droy as some think. :cool:
     
  21. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    You may be right. You do realize this kind of negativity is blasphemy around here.
     
  22. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    :facepalm:

    Please for the love of all humanity, our fellow forumites and the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise... give Terrell Edmunds over Darius Leonard a rest.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. steelers5859

    steelers5859 Well-Known Member

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    But Artie Burn's was just terrible. I think the word "terrible" is a compliment on how bad he actually played. But Bud Dupree is not that bad. Ola will have to be almost "James Harrison like" to supplant Dupree.
    But don't get me wrong, I'm no Dupree supporter. I think they shouldn't have given him that 5th-year option but they just don't have anyone in the group that is better. At least not now or what we've seen.
     
  24. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    :eek:


    Holy Cow!!


    Took us 3 years collectively to agree 100% on something! I guess miracles can happen!! :herewego:
     
  25. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    There are more measures of physical tools than just the 40-yard dash. That's the point I already explained that you are still missing. Leonard has far more talent than Matakevich. It's not even close. Leonard was a second-round pick who earned All-Pro honors. Matakevich was a seventh-round pick who would be out of the league by now if it wasn't for his play on special teams. There is a lot more separating the two beyond coaching and scheme.
     

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