Let's Talk----- ILBer

I've seen alot of talk recently on ILBers and wanted to discuss some things.

First thing is we must discern the position and whether the steelers even want one. After offering Hightower a rather large contract after losing Timmons I'd say ILB is higher on the list than most think. We are a 3-4 base defense right now. Our ILB are of two types with different requirments and responsiblities. First is the Mack and our guy is Shazier. He must be faster and better in coverage. He is VERY similar to a WiL in the 4-3. We do not need a High Profile Mack but we are thin at Backup so a Mid to late RD pick is in Order.

Next would be the Buck and our guy was Timmons and Now V. Williams. He is very similar to a 4-3 Mike or even Sam. This is were Hightower would have upgraded us and if we go early in the draft this is what we need. Williams will do but can be upgraded and our depth here is ok.

Buck Prospects is of course Reuben Foster. If he is there mid to late teens we MUST trade up for him!! Another is TJ Watt..( I know...EDGE ) ... but right now at 252 LBs and 4.69 speed and high motor he could wreck havoc as he learns the defense and gets bigger stronger so he can move to Edge in a year or two. I'm thinking Haasan Reddick is also a Buck whose true calling is the Mack.

To the Mack-- Everyone on here seems to be in Love with Cunningham as is many Media draftniks. I went back to re-watch his games and after the first two stopped. Florida and Tennesee and quite honestly I wasn't impressed at all. I confirmed what I had seen earlier. I personally wouln't draft him until rd 5 ( you're thinking I'm just dumb now ) but I know he'll be gone by then. Someone will draft him in the late rd2 or early rd3.

Since we only need a solid back-up Mack right now a couple of players I would take rd3-5 would be Alex Anzalone, Anthony Walker, Jarrad Davis and of course all before cunningham........

Cajun

 

I do not think Reuben Foster would be worth trading for honestly. An edge rusher would still be a top priority then.


While it is true that a buck is necessary, someone like Raekwon McMillian would be intriguing if he lasts to our second pick. Quite the buck there.



Having two macks in play sounds nice..... but would not work out unless the other possess Shazier's level of reckless abandon and quick diagnosis on plays; both of which arw truly rare even by his standards.




Rounds three to five would be my take for searching for one, but again, if McMillian is there by then and ia BPA, I would not mind.

 

I Like McMillian but he isn't a big enough upgrade over Williams to draft that high. I'd rather go edge then CB then ILB and he'll be gone by then. The only ILB I'd take before rd 3 is Foster. He can play Buck & Mack in my opinion. He's that special of a talent and even though ILB isn't that high on the needs list He would Instantly Improve our defense and if shazier goes down ( highly likely) he'll move over and williams enters the game.

Cajun

 

If Shazier is that big a concern for you, you did state Alex Azalone yourself could be an option. While he is a mack based option, that could alleviate some of your issues.



For me though, Shazier's injury is due in part to his play style. His reckless abandon and desire supercede everything else on the field. For me, I understand now that taming such a playstyle nullifies his abilities. Within the same token though, to have an insurance policy simply for that reason would not be intutive of what little draft capital is available.




Ensuring that we have ILB depth is one thing. How we plan to go forward ia another. I would not be upset if, by some rare form of unusual luck, Reuben Foster falls in our laps. Trading up for him though would only invest in the short term and jeopardize the long term; Ben's heir more specifically.



At the end of the day, depth at said position is a priorty that will be taken care of I am sure. However, we must perserve the future while ensuring we do all we can for the present due to this one reason;



Without stabilizing the present, our teams future does not look too good; Ben's heir doing well or not being a non factor.

 

I wouldn't sell the farm for Foster but if it was a reasonable trade up scenario,it would be awful tempting. The sideline to sideline ability we would have with our ILBs would be scary. I think he and Shazier are versatile and would complement each other remarkably....Foster is a tackling machine...ILB is just as weak as OLB on our roster....

 

williams, matakevich, johnson all can play the buck role. i don't see a need here. i know everyone thinks of johnson as a ST'er only. not true he played well when used in preseason and is a vet. in his role as a 3rd depth guy in this position he is quite adequate.

fort is much better than given credit for as far as depth too. he's pretty darn good in coverage and can rush the qb from that spot. also a vet. also good on ST's. i know ideally you don't want him having to start if shazier goes down but there are not too many that can fill that role either. draft or otherwise. i'm hoping a guy later like a jordan evans could be drafted.

this spot is also changing on our defense. the DE's no longer take up blockers as they once did. they are now penatrators used to stop the run and get pressure on the qb. we now also run much more hybrid 2 down lineman fronts instead of our old base 3-4 as we have known it and the old thinking of LB'ers has to somewhat change in what we look for in these guys. this ain't your fathers oldsmobile.

a little decrease in size and added speed is becoming the new norm. we last went to the SB with a guy named troy roaming all over the field and also making plays around the LOS. that's why i'm looking at these big fast SS types like obi and josh jones. they offer so much scheme flexibility to this new hybrid defense. we are having both in for visits for a reason. we are also very active in looking for penetrating types of D-linemen. carlos watkins, wormley, rochell and a few others. our LB'ers have to be able to run because they will have to beat o-linemen to the play and cover receivers. a whole different skillset than the old buck and mack only guys. we have enough of them when we run that defense part time.

 

I agree. We are an injury away from being in some serious trouble at ILB. A guy like Watt or Reddick who could play some ILB and OLB would be awesome, but I have no idea what our plans are there. I'd be absolutely floored if we didn't take one by the 4th round. We're super weak at the position

 

reddick and mcmillan don't make enough plays on their own for me. when i watch them and i've watched mcmillan every single week he has played and a lot of reddick and they ain't no shazier. other guys do the dirty work and these guys get the cleanup. watch what praise martin-oguike does in that temple defense. he doesn't always make the play but he's often a cause for the play to be made. what a story on this kid too. reddick takes terrible angles and is easily fooled.

mcmillan has such a good front playing in front of him and he still takes bad angles, gets washed out or is to the play later than he should be. i've been waiting for him to become more and he just doesn't.

these guys won't be going against the spread option as they do in college either. we need decisive, aggressive, smart LB'ers that are moving to the right spot to take on the run or can come down the line and make a tackle in the run game. attacking types. then they have to rush the passer and be able to cover when needed and make the decision quickly to diagnose these things. reddicks most tackles in a season have been 65, hell our corners make that many. yea these guys have speed but there is so much more to this position now days.

i hope our scouts do they're due diligence and look deep at some of these guys not ranked as high in these draft nik rankings and look for the guys that cause havoc for these so called top dogs to clean up they're messes by getting to the dance late.

go watch some of these guys when watching the main guy on tape. martin-oguike for temple when watching reddick tape. deshon hall when watching garrett. hall is a basketball player learning quickly how to be a really good OLB. hunter dimmick and how effective this kid plays. javancy jones. carroll phillips. avery moss. these are just a few names of the other guys that are very good football players and would make your team better and make others around them better because of what they do. come on scouts this is where you make your money and you find those lacrosse players.

 

I like our ILB, if we take an ILB it will be for BPA only.

 

I'm having a hard time finding a Mack candidate in the mid rounds or later that has shown consistent tackling. There are guys available with the pass coverage skills and decent speed but the tackling is 50/50. Watched 4-5 yesterday and no one stood out.

 

In todays NFL the LBer position is ever evolving. With teams playing more and more sub-packages, nickel,dime,big nickel and so-on in order to defend a more pass happy league the need for speedy LBs has increased. Finding the Classic Mike or Wil or Mack LBer is becoming more difficult and colleges aren't helping. Safeties are playing bigger and bigger roles and that Hybrid LB/safety type of player is becoming the in thing.

When we go sub-package and lose the NT we morph into what appears to be a 4-3 look with our DL playing DT and our OLB playing DEs, our two LBers defend the next line and we go big nickel with an extra safety/LBer type of role or another corner to better defens the slot wr. It can get as complicated as space/time continuum but what if we took a look at some safeties who could play that hybrid role?

Jabrill Peppers is the one who 1st comes to mind. I think this would best suit him..... His tracking the deep ball inability weakens his role as a FS but his quickness and athletic skills and size helps his SS role. He is NOT Troy but I could see him as a Hybrid SS/LB.

Are there any other prospects that you see?

I ask because when Shazier goes down Fort is his back-up.......Fort and Vince Williams doesn't evoke fear in opposing offenses defending underneath.

Cajun-

 

I have watched Fort at Steelers training camp, he can play.
may not be an every down player, but he is more than capable
of playing if the coaching staff prepares him properly. Same can be
said for Dirty Red.

 

i agree about fort. dirty red can play too and should be better year two. i still like jordan evans late, 5th or 6th rd., but still like a couple of those big safety types to help in this area if needed.