LET'S DO THIS: MENDENHALL

i'll buy that my friend. Merry Christmas by the way.

 

The point is that Redman is not a "gimme" where the run is concerned. Mendy has more total yards and more TDs than Redman. Jes sayin'. [/quote:33kq2m7r]

And Mendy is a gimme?

Mendy has 143% more attempts and 119% more yards. That's why you look at averages. Just sayin'. [/quote:33kq2m7r]

Are you referring to the ugliest designed draw play out of the shotgun as the play Redman needed to make? Because that is not being fair to him by any stretch of the imagination. Ben gimped the half step to Redman stuck it in his gut and before Redman could get moving the defense was in the backfield and his pulling guard was falling down. The defender hits his feet and Redman slips allowing for a clean up tackle. That is hardly setting the guy up with a play that has a chance of succeeding it was so ugly not even tying a t-bone to its neck would get the dog to play with it. Capital U on Ugly. So lets not judge Redman by that piece of garbage play.[/quote:33kq2m7r]

i don't think any of our RB's are bad players. they all have to run in this offense and behind this subpar offensive line. so, trying to pick one being so much better than the other is futile at best. mendy has good runs as do all of them. i saw a well designed play that mendy picked up 10-11 yards on. when they do their job up front and we run some unseen plays, any of our backs are capable of gaining good yardage. mendy just runs more plays where they don't do their jobs and it makes him look worse. if red was the feature back, he would have some stuffed runs as well. it goes with the territory. if we had 5 top linemen their would still be plays that our backs would not get possitive yardage, because the defenders are paid alot of money to stop it too. it's football. it happens. [/quote:33kq2m7r]

Thank you for some objectivity.

Most posters aren't addressing most of the points I made in the OP.

 

i'll buy that my friend. Merry Christmas by the way. [/quote:273r19cq]

Back at ya Mac.

 

This isn't meant to be Mendy v. Redman.

This is about discussing the play of Mendy. I even outlined what I think some of the issues are.

 

And why is it so hard for people to realize this happens to Mendy all the time? I mentioned this in the OP. Huh? :roll:[/quote]

It does, I would not dispute that however I also think he at times gets tentative in the backfield. That busted play where it was designed to go off tackle right and then he spun out of a hit and went left was great and I would like to see more of that however he just seems at times to follow the play into a pile when he doesn't have ot and could cut back and gain positive yards.

 

Good point. This is why I discussed coaching as an issue with the run game. And how this affects the perception of Mendy.

Lately, he is just blasing the hole even if he isn't getting any yardage. I think he has determined to show everyone that w/out solid O-Line play it won't matter what he does. It will, however, cause him to unnecessarily abuse his body to still gain insufficient yardage...

 

Listen, I like Redman, he's a good, strong, hard runner. But, he's not an elite RB nor does he have the tools to ever be one. He's pretty much exactly like Green-Ellis in NE. Did you guys know that until this year Green-Ellis had never been stuffed for a loss in his entire career (highschool, college and NFL)? That's pretty incredible and shows how hard he runs. Yet he's limited in what he can do because he's just that, a strong runner. He doesn't have a ton of other tools and that's why NE drafted 2 RB's in the last draft.

Mendy has skills similar to Forte, McCoy and McFadden, and those guys are considered superstar RB's, If not for Ben and BA, Mendy would be too. Lets not forget the numbers he put up last year behind a terrible offensive line and getting playcalling from the worst OC in the league as it pertains to the rushing game. Put Mendy in Philly and I bet he is the top RB in the league.

 

I know that... and I discussed the play of Mendy and then started to talk about Redman. What's the problem with that?

 

I like Mendy! Give him some holes and he can find daylight. I don't hold his SB fumble against him too much. Even the BUS made some mistakes (Indianapolis). Use Redman for 3rd and short or on the goal line.

 

Reading these posts is swaying me a little bit. I still think Mendy dances waaaaay too much regardless of line play. And he often times carries the ball recklessly (u guys see that play on Monday when he was flailing the ball out around 3 defenders???). But I will admit the man is tale nted and BA does not nealry utilize that talent in the ways they should. neither does Ben. BA + Ben = bad running game no matter who is back there.

At the end of the day, if BA stays and Mendy wants top 10 RB money, he's gotta go. But if I had to choose, BA should go be OC in AZ and bring in someone who knows how to utilize what most of you are indicating is supreme RB talent so that I can be completely swayed. Oh, and the OC must be able to say no to Ben, unlike the current OC and HC

 

Yes, I did notice that, and I hate when he does it. He needs to stop BS'ing with that and protect the ball!

I also agree with the "say no to Ben" deal, too.

 

shaner82 had a good point in his early response on this thread that I don't think had been touched on.

That is the lack of check downs to the RB. They are there and could often be used for good gains. Defenses seem to be ready for that bubble screen to the WRs because we use it a lot. What I don't think they ever expect is to see the WRs heading down field and after 4 seconds Ben turns to Mendy all alone in the flat as he turns and takes it for 10-15 yards at least.
To illustrate the point, watch the highlight of Ben's 2nd INT from Monday. He had all day to find someone open. The entire time Mendy is standing all alone on the right....I was sitting there yelling "THROW IT TO MENDY, THROW IT TO MENDY". Pretty sure I went to the kitchen, pulled out a beer, cracked it open and got back to the couch before shouting one more "THROW IT TO MENDY" and then blamo....INT. Thats on Ben for not utilizing that enough.

None of this is to argue for or against Mendenhall...just an observation of a failure of the offense that could really, really help throughout games.

 

What RB can't find daylight with holes to run through??

 

It does, I would not dispute that however I also think he at times gets tentative in the backfield. That busted play where it was designed to go off tackle right and then he spun out of a hit and went left was great and I would like to see more of that however he just seems at times to follow the play into a pile when he doesn't have ot and could cut back and gain positive yards.[/quote]

I agree that he does get tentative, at times. The last few games it seems he's become more aggressive, though. But that could just be my perception. I have no stats per rush to prove/disprove my statement. It's more of the "look test." It just looks that way, to me.

 

The fact that people complain about his performance against San Francisco is proof that people will always complain about him, no matter what. There have been complaints about him every single week, no matter how he plays. He had a great game. But if he has even one carry that goes for 1 yard or less, there will be a thread about benching, trading, or not re-signing him on this board...

I don't know why people have it out for this guy so much. Maybe the tweets? Maybe the fumbling reputation, which is not really substantiated by facts? Maybe his "soft" image, which as far as I can tell dates to an injury in 2008 from which he fully recovered and has since laid out his share of defenders, including the one that caused his injury? Or maybe it's more to do with his "style", of not running square into defenders arms/Ramon Foster's ass. It's like people literally only want backs like Redman on this team. I love Redman, but my God, what's wrong with more than one kind? We NEED more than one kind. I found the "Trade Mendenhall for Hillis" people at the season's beginning completely laughable for that reason as much as any. What are we going to do with two Redmans? Everyone's willing to point out runs that Redman makes where Mendy wouldn't have gotten as many yards, but when Mendenhall does the same thing everyone shuts up and ignores it.

I think people see what they want to see. If you have the motivation and are constantly looking for it, you can find plenty of plays where Mike Wallace does NOT outrun his defender and Brett Keisel gets blocked out of the play and Isaac Redman gets tackled by the first guy. So they zero in on Mendenhall's negative runs, and how he got them. "Oh, see that? Instead of running right through those linebackers and getting a yard, he stopped and tried to find a new hole, and he didn't. What a weak soft dancer!" Then when he does the same thing and bounces it outside for 9 yards, nothing... That's how it freakin' works and always has.

 

This point is listed in the OP, and I was yelling the same thing at the screen when I was watching the game. Mendy was doing jumping jacks and Ben never even glanced in his direction.

 

Preach!

I guess I was expecting a different kind of debate, out of this. I started the thread because I wanted to get a clear picture of why people don't like Mendy. So, in the OP, I addressed how I see the major cases against Mendy. But I don't feel the picture is any clearer. But, hey, it's sports. And everyone is entitled to their opinion, however they have formed it, I guess.

 

See Maurice Jones-Drew and Ray Rice on how to use a running back. Mendy could be just as good as these guys if Ben would throw him the ball and stop trying to get the "splash-play"

 

Agreed. Mendenhall had a great catch and run against SF. He excels there when given the chance. And getting at least ONE guard on the roster capable of running a screen would help.

 

In 2009, when Ben had his best statistical year, Mendenhall had over 10 yards per catch. Perhaps there's a correlation between throwing to a RB and being offensively successful, just saying...

Edited to add, Mendy is averaging less than 1 catch per game this season. Seriously, if we are now a passing team which everyone claims we are, why does one of our best pass catchers and open field runners have less than 1 catch per game?

Adrien Peterson, who is considered to be the best RB in football, has 9.5 yards per catch over the course of his career. Mendy has 8.4 over his career, and that's behind a much, much weaker line. Seriously, we need to throw the ball to Mendy much, much more often, because when we do, it translates into first downs, and that's obvious based on his average, the fact that teams don't cover him in the open field, and the fact that rarely ever does he drop a ball that's thrown to him (I can only think of a couple times over his whole career with the Steelers).

 

I have to agree that we dont throw to the "checkdown" rb enough, unless his name is Mewelde Moore...
The defenses don`t even bother to cover the other ones, because we don`t use them.
I would have to lay the blame for that at Ben`s feet, even though I think he is the best qb we have had since Terry...
It is not JUST Arians lack of design(which I believe is also a huge factor)...
Even when Arians doesn`t design plays to get the runningback the ball, on a short pass, the rb is usually still out there as an available option, that Ben doesn`t usually choose to use...
Could add another dimension to our offense, that defenses would have to prepare for, IMHO...

 

I agree with many on here about Mendy being a very good back who is not properly used.

And to go along with the issue of not checking down to him, alot of that is Ben and some is BA, and even when it is Ben, BA is the enabler. How many plays do we have where the play design is to go to the RB as the primary target. I think the only time is when Moore is in on 3rd and long. If BA would design and call some plays designed to go to the playmaker RB, Mendy would have saome really big successes. Rice certainly gets these frequently as did Forte. Other teams use these and we typically only see these plays when they are called against us. Imagine a play designed to be a quick pass to Mendy with the others actually blocking for such a play...

 

i do believe we don't run this type of play much, if at all, still all comes back to the o-line. we don't have mobile guards that are needed to go out and seal lb'ers. we also have to keep our rb's in closer to help block, because the line can't do it on their own, so our rb's get out late. our wr's are also not hines ward as a downfield blocker. all of these things are needed to make these type of designed plays. bottom line we need a couple of mobile guards. we need these wr's to block like hines. he's been playing alot less. believe me it also effects our running game too. hines has been like another TE throughout the years. for years we had the best blocking wr's here. i'm not so sure thats the case right now. alot of times just one small forgotten aspect of a play makes it not work as in the past. most think it will always work the same, with a change in personnel. not the case.

 

Mendenhals issues imo are that he doesn't have good vision, he's too tentative and most important he scares me with ball security.

What is left on his contract? If he has time I'd want to trade him for a draft pick (and a dream would be to package Kemo with the deal). Problem is you can get a Mendenhal quality back in the later rounds. If his contract is up I'd let him walk.

 

Unlike when we needed a play out of Mendy vs KC, and gave him four chances to do it, and failed?

I'll take Redman over Mendy for this team. He's cheaper and better at blitz pick-up. The running portion is a wash. Since we don't utilize the RB's in the receiving game mendy's advantage there is diminished.