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Lake gone

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by GoalLine, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Last season was a fluke for his defense. Personnel had a lot to do with it. His defenses have created sacks and turn overs everywhere he's coached. You have to have the horses to run. It doesn't matter what defense it is. The fact that those defenses made the playoffs says something because a lot didn't.
    :cool:
     
  2. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

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    After watching the nfl the past month. I have come to the conclusion that defense is obsolete. The super bowl was brutal if u like defensive football. Which i do.

    You are gonna just have to have 11 players on defense who can get in the way 40% of the time. The rules and the skill of the athletes have made it impossible to just shut good teams down

    I mean jacksonville is suppose to be one othe best in the nfl. We put 42 on them.

    The eagles got 1 stop. I dont know if the pats punted?

    The only thing that seems to stop offenses is this stupid catch rule. And they are suppose to fix that. I fear the days of having a dominate d are gone. I hope i am wrong but the rules and the way the games are called just wont allow it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    I put ray horton in the same catagory as tim lewis, they both suck.......
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Thats definitely not true. His tenure here was very good at least. Not sure about elsewhere.
     
  5. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    I'll give you that, he was pretty good as our DB coach, as a DC not so much usually fired after a year and once after 2 years with 4 different teams..........
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    IDK I keep reading how bad Lake was how come he don't get credit with the turnaround in Gay? I mean when Gay left us the first time he couldn't cover a bed if he was
    If I remember right he had a good D someplace and was even being talked about as a head coaching candidate. Not sure if it was the Cards or Cryboys.
     
  7. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    i still prefer somebody with experience. i do believe that was lakes downfall. he didn't know what he didn't know in how to improve a player beyond they're skill levels. he just hadn't had the experience under a coach that taught him how to do that. he didn't really have the time under the wing of anyone before he was thrown into the NFL. like munchak and mann, these guys had years of knowledge built up to teach and elevate players beyond they're skill set and it showed. that is also my concern with hiring woodson. give me an older coach with experience to pass on. :cool:
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Yup, Gay is another one he helped.

    Let's not forget that for most of his tenure, he wasn't given a lot to work with.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    like deshea townsend, troy, ryan clark, ike taylor, bryant mcfadden, william gay < when most wanted him run out of town. thats a lot to work with. :cool:
     
  10. groutbrook

    groutbrook Well-Known Member

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    Week 5 we put 9 points on them. That 42 was based on the situation, and 3 (if not 4) miracle TD catches. It was far from the norm. I think defense can still win in this league, or at least go a long way toward not losing...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Those are guys he had success with, I mean 3 of those guys are really good, dont know how much he had to do with that but the other three he got the most out of them.

    Im talking about him getting bashed for not being able to do anything with the likes of Cortez Allen, Josh Victorian, Curtis Brown, Shark, BW Webbs and so on.
     
  12. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Not me, the last few years Green Bay defenses have been terrible that's why they got rid of him.
     
  13. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I think Horton was DC when Arizona made the playoffs, their defenses were highly ranked.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    A old timer like Capers wouldn't go for that, Tomlin didn't interfere when LeBeau was DC.
     
  15. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

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    That is kinda my point. They werent miracle catches. AB does that. When the games matter. I mean really matter. Players step up. We put up 9, yes. But ben isnt throwing 5 picks in the playoffs. The jags didnt stop pats either. They controlled the ball in first half and quit running offense in the second. I guess we will agree to disagree but if the 2 best played last week? They defenses didnt show up thats for damn sure
     
  16. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    I have never been a Lake hater. It's not like the guy ever had prime talent to work with. There are people that thought Artie Burns was a late 2nd round pick and Sean Davis was raw when we drafted him. In a way, maybe he got the most out of them he could. That being said, I like the change in DB coach. I guess we will see if it makes a difference.
     
  17. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    He did too he was changing the defense away from the base 3-4 and that is why DL left cause Rooney gave Tomlin all the power. DL would still be here coaching, otherwise why would he go to the Titans?
     
  18. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Hiring Lake made sense, and that was one reason. Also, this is a guy who had to learn how to play safety and then cornerback at the professional level. He was primarily a linebacker at UCLA, but he adjusted quickly enough to make an immediate impact at safety in the NFL. Then he had to switch over to cornerback in 1995 when Woodson blew out his knee and made himself a decent option there.

    That said, he clearly hasn't gotten the job done. Davis and Burns both regressed this year. There are constant breakdowns in the secondary. Somebody mentioned pursuit angles as something you can't learn, which is absolutely incorrect. That is a skill that can be taught and Lake clearly wasn't doing a good enough job teaching it. It's not all on him, but he definitely deserves a significant share of the blame for the lack of development among his players.
     
  19. groutbrook

    groutbrook Well-Known Member

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    I'll give you AB, but If Bryant and Bell can make those catches on a regular basis, give them both however much money they want.
    Also, I've learned over the years, never use the Steelers or Pats as study controls.
    :drinks:
     
  20. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    So now everbody is holding a wake for lake, we have been constantly bashing him for his poor coaching wanting him gone for several years, now he is gone everbody is making excuses for his lack of success, I wanted him gone and now that he is i'm glad and they replaced him with a real DB coach....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Lebeau left because Steelers made him. Butler was his replacement in waiting and they were afraid hed go elsewhere.

    I think they thought that DL would have retired sooner given his age. The deal they had in place with Butler was well known.

    The defense was all Lebeau when he was here, Tomlin didnt touch that.
     
  22. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    Carnell Lake was a great Steelers player. Joey Porter was a great Steelers player. Neither of them are, IMHO, even good coaches.

    Personally, I don't want the Steelers to ever hire another former Steeler player again! It just never seems to work.

    Those who can, play. Those who can't, coach. The best coaches seemed to be either mediocre, role players or never played competitive football beyond the high school level. They are teachers of the game. I guess we could say Mike Munchak is an exception, he was a great offensive lineman but he was never a Steeler. He also didn't have much success as a head coach. I love Hines. I love Rod. They were great players. But I don't want them on the Steelers coaching staff.
     
  23. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    You are part right, the deal was in place for a long time and the Steelers did think DL would retire before he left. However the last year or two they started changing the D. Maybe I am wrong but I remember there were some issues with that and it was the reason why DL "left". Any way we can find this out cause I am going by memory so I have no facts to back it up and you know I am getting older.........:lolol:

    EDIT:

    Blast found what it was and once I read a little about it I remembered. There was a struggle between MT and DL as MT wanted to put his mark on the D and was not drafting "3-4" type players.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  24. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    LeBeau left because his contract was up and they promised Butler the job, it had nothing to do with changing the base defense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1

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