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Kordell on picket/canada

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by strummerfan, Jan 20, 2023.

  1. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I can't help but think if they could take the offense Roman created for Lemar Jackson into the past and give it to Cowher when he had Bettis as a punishing runner, Stewart as a threat to run with strong blocking TE's they had, they would have ground down any team they faced.
     
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  2. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    So I was just in the KFP thread and had this thought pop into my head. Often times as a coach or OC the goal of winning games can coexist with the goal of training a young player and bringing them along at a appropriate pace. So at what point does winning games become more important than a young QB's development or vice versa. Is bringing a QB along slowly and surely more important than winning games? We're there times this season where both Mitch and Kenny were prevented from making throws because of a cautious approach and as a result lost the game? Where does that balance exist?
     
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  3. gibson43

    gibson43 Well-Known Member

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    This and I think he was before his time. I'd agree with a previous post that he'd be a first rounder in the modern NFL. Especially with the evolution of the position and how offenses are schemed.

    The idea that QBs that run can't throw is one of the dumbest takes that continues to be stated. It's mainly driven by the dislike for Lamar Jackson (and the guy wins 75% of his games...without a real WR during career to this point).I'm not a "Lamar fan" but the dude wins. Running is part of the position now...here are a few names who can run...Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, Trevor Lawrence, Patrick Mahomes (9th leading QB rusher this year)...these guys do ok throwing the ball....

    And...4 of the top 5 rushing QBs in the league this year...all their teams made the playoffs.

    Usually a QB who runs and can't throw has nothing to do with their ability to run...and everything to do with them not being a good QB overall.
     
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  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    You can say that about a lot of QB’s and not be wrong. It’s not exactly going out on a limb.
     
  5. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It's not like he was far off from that when he was drafted in 1995. The Steelers took him in the second round.
     
  6. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Teams win, not individual players, even quarterbacks. Jackson is a dynamic weapon, but a very limited passer.
     
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  7. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Outside of throwing the ball in the dirt more than I ever seen a starting Qb do.....You are correct. LoL.
    So forget that We were running some of the same plays a Lamar Jackson runs at that time.
    People forget that some reporters asked Gailey why Kordell wasn't asked to throw certain routes, and His answer was....I'll tell You if We win a SB...never happen, and never told....at least not publicly.
    Funny....People say if they didn't want to make Him a pocket passer.....Yet RG3, and His father went to the great Shanahans, and said stop playing Him that way....We want Him to run the same system as a Manning.....Do people remember how fast RG3 disappeared, and people actually blamed the Shanahans at that time. Now another.....Lamar Jackson wants a different more pro offense....We shall see how that turns out......in short .....Your damned if You do , or You damned if You don't on how You treat a running Qb. If You treat them as a pocket passer....well why You trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.....If You treat them as a running Qb.....why are You doing that???? LoL.
    Save some time....just get a pocket passer that can run on occasions.
     
  8. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but You are not looking at the cause ......90% of OC are changed because the team/Qb are not doing well..... not many change when things are going well.....unless they are hired as a head coach.
    Hell Ben not only lost a OC, but a head coach. I don't remember anyone giving Him excuses.
     
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  9. gibson43

    gibson43 Well-Known Member

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    Look at their win % with him and their win % without him.

    Look at our win % with TJ and then without TJ.

    Look at our win % with Troy P. and then without him.

    Team sport...but certain players tilt the scales significantly. And if the QBs ability didn't often dictate outcomes, they wouldn't be paid as much.

    Most QBs have a limitation...allen plays hero ball, mahomes looses his mechanics a few times a year, burrow will throw Ints in bunches etc...I'd say Jackson needs to more development throwing outside the numbers. However, he hasn't had an outside receiver worth a hoot to throw to. So how much is him vs run heavy scheme and skill of his WRs? By your logic Hines Ward was limited...he stacked numbers overtime, but a lot of WR during his era made lots of pro bowls with much better yearly numbers...he was limited in pro bowl selections...and never on the level with a Marvin Harrison type. Was he lacking in skill...or did he play in a run heavy offense deprioritizing his skills.
     
  10. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    You guy forget....We were running some of those same dang plays. Go back ,and watch. Oh also Lamar Jackson wanted Roman out, and wanted to run a pro style system, remember How RG3, and His dad did the same with the Shanahans....stop running this....We want a system like Mannings. You can look all this up.
     
  11. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    All Qbs can run when they are Young.....not all Qbs have to run to be good. Somehow some of You don't understand this. Hell P. Manning ran, but He was not a Running Qb. P. Mahomes can run, but He is not a running Qb....Ben could run, but He wasn't a running QB. Dak is not a running Qb....
    Out of all the Qbs You just named only 2 even fit into a running QB category......Allen, and Hurts.
    It's simple.....if a team has to design Qb runs(not sneaks) almost every game....You are probably a running QB.....only 2 You named fit that bill....Allen, and Hurts.
     
  12. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    None of those guys can win by themselves. The Ravens have had strong defenses most of Jackson's career. They have had strong offensive lines. He also hasn't had a viable option behind him at quarterback.

    Watt has talent around him on defense. He also has useless guys filling in for him.

    Evaluating a quarterback or supporting an argument about one solely by the team's record is lazy and inaccurate.

    Also, Marquise Brown is a decent receiver, but his production at receiver was limited by having Jackson throwing to him.
     
  13. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Hmmm you know what, after reading all that, I still don’t agree with you :lolol:
     
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  14. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    I'll have to go back and look at some of the playcalling for Kordell but it didn't standout to me as much as the play design the Ravens were running that first year with Jackson. It was like full embracing a read option but kicking it up a notch. They would run a 3 TE formation or 2 with their huge FB as a 3rd and then run different looks off of it. Sell the run to the right hard but have Jackson keep it and roll left and if they have a spy preventing Jackson from running they'd have the te on a shallow drag route that Jackson could lob the ball to. I remember a lot of Stewart's runs were because the receivers were covered and a hole opened up so he took it and ran.
     
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  15. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    They might have had some draw plays for him but they didn’t have anything remotely resembling an offense designed around his skills.

    They didn’t want him running. Back then that was still highly taboo and much more understandable as you were much more likely to get killed.
     
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  16. Animus

    Animus Well-Known Member

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    I just wonder if a young Chip Kelly or Urban Meyer installed their spread/no huddle offenses with Kordell in 98 how effective it would've been. Absolutely nobody really seen those offenses yet and Kordell is the model type QB to run what Oregon ran by 09-15. It may have been highly explosive or doa. Who knows.
     
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  17. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    Ben improved with a new head coach.
     
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  18. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    That Oregon offense was ruined by television. I don’t know that they would have won the game against auburn, but the constant television timeouts certainly didn’t help Oregon at all. Their game was based on speed and volume wearing down the opposing defenses. Every time auburn atarted getting gassed with their hands on their hips it was tv timeout time
     
  19. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    That is correct, should have been a receiver. He missed his calling.
     
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  20. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, but that's completely different than replacing 1 ineffective OC.

    Obviously the goal for those of us who want to replace Canada is for the next OC to actually be good. Not a revolving door of OC's.

    Apples to oranges
     
  21. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Go back ,and watch My friend. We designed runs for Him. I guess You forgot the pitch one way to the bus, and everyone ran the other way with the fullback in the lead for Stewart running....that is just one example....or the fake hand off into the fake throw, and Kordell takes off. These are just a few.
     
  22. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Thats not true. We don't have to argue, but they had designed runs for Him. I gave a few examples on My last post. Yes He did take off on His own a lot, but He had designed runs also. We ran two that I mentioned quite often.
     
  23. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    :thumbs_up:
    Thats cool. We don't have to agree all the time. I never met a person I agreed with all the time.
     
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  24. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    It's entirely possible. I was watching a game clip the other day on YouTube and it was Cam's rookie year and all of a sudden I was like I remember watching this game was it really 10 years ago
     
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  25. JD86

    JD86 Well-Known Member

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    I will never get why so many hate Kordell. There is no other Steelers QB besides Bradshaw and Roethlisberger who was better than him. When you look at his accomplishments, he is the 3rd best QB in franchise history.

    He led us to 2 AFC Championship games, made 2 Pro Bowls (one as an alternate), was AFC player of the year and runner up as NFL player of the year all as a QB. Out of all time Steelers QB's he is 3rd in yardage and TD's.

    It has always amazed me how people mythically try to claim that he was our worst QB ever. It really shows a lack of knowledge and pure ignorance when it comes to Steelers football to those that make that argument.

    Slash was an explosive player and game changer ahead of his time who was fun to watch. He gets a bad wrap due to the string of bad luck the team had from 98-to midway of 2000 (when we almost made the playoffs) due to 4 different offensive coordinators during those years, losing Thigpen after 97, Charles Johnson in 98, then being stuck with Courtney Hawkins as his #1 WR. He also lost multiple Olineman during that time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023

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