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Just don’t see us getting by Jacksonville

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Real steel, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Think you meant to quote Scribe ;)

    But you're right. I'll add, for all this wringing of the hands over our D, how many games did they lose while giving up these big plays :hmm:
     
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  2. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    some of those games were due to ben taking over and bos finishing lol.

    outside argument "wow you barely beat those teams"

    bad teams don't go 13-3 regardless of schedule
     
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  3. Danthesteelersman

    Danthesteelersman Well-Known Member

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    Those Close games help out in the end, playoffs often come down to scrapping the game plan and just find a way to win the game, we've done that a lot this year, adversity, perseverance
     
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  4. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I'm not cherry-picking. That is just the latest in a series of false assertions in this discussion and it is not appreciated. Look at the Jaguars' numbers for the entire season. That game against the 49ers is clearly an anomaly. I'm more than happy to point to their entire season. It's the best defense in the AFC, among the top two or three in the league, even with the numbers from the two games you mentioned figured in.

    With the Steelers, I'm talking about a trend. The numbers for their pass defense were excellent through five games. They hadn't given up any of those 40-plus yard pass plays.

    Due to a number of factors, the pass defense has been dramatically weaker since that fast start. Part of it has been injuries. Part may be changes made to try to fix the team's issues on run defense. Part may just be facing better quarterbacks. The point is that the comparison you used regarding pass plays of 40-plus yards is misleading because the Steelers clearly aren't at the level they showed the first half of the season.

    If you want to fool yourself by making excuses as to why some of the crappy performances by the Pittsburgh defense somehow don't count, you are welcome to do so, but it won't suddenly make them better once it matters on the field this Sunday. The Steelers' best hope is that Yeldon is still sick, Fournette really has hit the rookie wall and Bortles has one of his truly ugly days.
     
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  5. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    That was with the offense making up for the defense's failings, which could be a lot tougher to do against the Jaguars. They got away with it against far weaker defenses like the Browns and Packers. Even the Ravens aren't on the Jaguars' level defensively.

    Pittsburgh is far better suited to a shootout than Jacksonville, but I don't see Sunday's game going that way.
     
  6. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    Have you ever noticed real steel climbs out from under a rock every once in a while, posts something that gets everyone going, and then climbs back under? This seems to happen when it’s a slow posting period on this board.

    Hmmm....TTF?....Hmmm
     
  7. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Stafford is an elite QB and the following games Haden was lost for. You can point to a meaningless game like Cleveland if you want to.

    Can't wait to see your posts when NE is the opponent, thats going to be fun :lolol:

    At least I'll agree with the concern then, Im not worried about Bortles beating us at all.
     
  8. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    So, you're suiting up Sunday? (The "us" thing always drives me nuts."

    Haden hasn't proven he is all the way back. He did a decent job on Hopkins most of the Texans game, then struggled along with the rest of the secondary against the Browns. He had a Burns-like screw-up to allow Kizer's first big pass play.

    The Cleveland game was a chance for the defense to work on things. All they did was show they are still very vulnerable to big passing plays. It's just one additional piece of evidence that is part of a case that has been building since Week 6.

    Bortles didn't beat the Steelers the first time, but the Jaguars sure did. You're counting on him to suck again, against a weaker Pittsburgh defense than the one he faced the first time, and the offense has to step up tremendously in relation to the first matchup with the Jaguars. It is comical that so many people think the Jaguars have no chance against an opponent they beat by 21 during the regular season. The Steelers are the better team, even without Tuitt and Burns, but not by much.
     
  9. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    :facepalm: Wow.

    As for the rest :beathorse:

    Talk to me after Sunday. Maybe you'll get to gloat.
     
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  10. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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  11. SuperSteelers

    SuperSteelers Well-Known Member

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    Steelers should win by no less than 10 points if Ben stays patient and takes what they give him. Don't play into their strength and keep it under 30 passing attempts will be key. Hand it off to Bell and let him do most of the work. Save the arm for when they meet the Pats.

    Steelers 24-14
     
  12. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Why would I be gloating? I would love to be wrong and see the Steelers blow the Jaguars off the field.

    Just because I'm realistic and understand that the Steelers have a very difficult challenge ahead of them Sunday doesn't mean I don't want them to win. I can be a fan without going full fanboy.

    It's funny that you were still arguing up to that point, but suddenly stating my side is beating a dead horse.

    The us thing is childish. If that makes ya happy, go for it, but it's childish.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  13. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    I notice a lot of fans say "we" or "us" when talking about their favorite teams. I do it and am not ashamed of doing it. I know I don't play but the 3 teams in the Burgh are my teams and we got to kick some booty on Sunday. And Titans and Falcons are my teams for Saturday:)
     
  14. Busman

    Busman

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    I dont think its possible to underestimate and opponent that kicked your butt in your own stadium
     
  15. Busman

    Busman

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    Agree with your assessment I would only add that the coach feels and I personally feel that resting starters and having a bye week will not hinder the Steelers performance again Jacksonville. They have practiced very hard these last couple of weeks and I read today that Ben actually practiced on Wed where normally throughout the season he would have been inactive. You think Ben and company want this? Ben has a different look in his eye and his performance has changed from wk 5.
     
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  16. Busman

    Busman

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    Was not all on Bortles. Lot of drops for their WRs
     
  17. Busman

    Busman

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    Question since I never went back and rewatched that game. Do you feel like Ben is playing much better ball then he did in Wk 5 against the Jags?
     
  18. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Ah yes, the realists claim :rolleyes:
    You really are full of yourself you know that. Youve disparaged several knowledgable fans on this site, even Elvis which is fantastically hysterical. I'd pit his knowledge against yours any day.

    Again with the Us thing, what an asinine take on it :facepalm:
     
  19. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Reading through this thread you would think the 85 Bears are coming into town.:roflmao:The Jaguars are a 10-6 football team that barely won the worst division in football. I'm not saying this isn't the best Jags team in a long while, because it is. But this is a home game against a clearly weaker opponent. It won't be a cakewalk, because with the Steelers it rarely is. But I damn sure think WE are capable of pulling out a win.

    And yes I said WE. When you are emotionally invested in something for over 30 years I don't think it's childish to do so.
     
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  20. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I understand why you don't like it. You don't like being seen as childish. You complain about me being rude to other posters, yet you are quite ready to be disrespectful of my opinion.

    I don't know the people on this site. I haven't been around that long. I respond to the posts I see. If someone makes a point I see as foolish, I'm not going to avoid stating my opinion just because of the handle to the left of the post.

    You'll pardon me if I consider your take on my knowledge as biased and somewhat uninformed. You don't know me. You don't know about my football knowledge. Yet you clearly have a problem with how I post.
     
  21. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    :lolol: You really think I feel childish because you don't like fans saying Us when referring to the team they root for??? Like I said, you're full of yourself. Keep beating that drum though, I imagine you're making lots of friends here spewing that nonsense.

    Go ahead, play victim, myself and everyone following along know your game already.

    This has moved on from football and become personal so I'm done with this conversation. :wave:
     
  22. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I never said you feel childish. I said you don't like being seen that way.

    I also never claimed to be a victim. I just explained why your comparison of my football knowledge to others might be biased. You don't know my level of knowledge, so it's not really possible for you to compare to someone else.

    I'm also not the one who turned this personal. I'm more than happy to keep my focus on the game.

    The Steelers were missing three defensive starters at practice today due to injury, four if you count Shazier. Tuitt claims he's fine and Burns is expected to practice tomorrow, but nothing yet on Hargraves. Does that make anybody feel a bit more pessimistic?
     
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  23. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    It doesn’t help that those guys are injured, and I’m even more concerned that there continues to be a “wait and see” message about AB despite him practicing fully (though that could just be the team being cagey). Now imagine if we were also dealing with an injury to Ben, Bell or Heyward because they had played in a meaningless game vs the Browns in week 17 to avoid getting rusty.

    I like our chances of dealing with the mental/psychological aspects of this game. The week 5 game ensures that our players won’t look past the Jags. I like our kicker at Heinz in a game where field goals may be both teams’ primary means of scoring. I like that Ben wanted to play the Jags again, and I think he feels personally accountable for the way things went in week 5 and wants to prove that he’s not really the turnover machine that he was in that game. I like that we have proven over and over again this season that the ‘17 Steelers know how to win, and can come back to win even when the odds are against us. We can be down 10+ in the 3rd quarter and come back. It’s happened enough that needing to come back is within the team’s comfort zone. The Jags would be way out of their comfort zone if they get down 10+ points.

    We’re all aware of the weaknesses that we’ve shown on the defensive side of the ball at times this year. However, those weaknesses haven’t cost us games, and our defense has tightened up substantially when games are on the line, literally against everyone but New England (which is a different matter mentally that we will hopefully get into discussing starting Sunday night). Championship teams overcome their flaws in the second season. I think back to the Colts when Manning won his first SB. That team was horrid against the run that season. Just terrible. When the playoffs came around their run defense was smothering. My recollection is that they had a 1st or 2nd round matchup against the Chiefs and Priest Holmes back when he was rolling with MVP caliber seasons. On paper it was a horrid matchup, but the Colts defenders were vastly better when it really counted, and they stonewalled Holmes. There are many other examples, but I don’t have time to write anymore.

    Bottom line is that championship caliber teams overcome their weaknesses when it really counts. We have shown that all season by winning games as a team when it looked like we would lose. I fully understand the big play stats, and the rush defense stats, and I recognize that we could be bitten by some mistakes on the defensive end. However, I also understand that wins and losses are the ultimate stat. We’re 13-3, and 10-1 since that sickening October day. We’ve pulled games out of the fire, and our defense has been a big part of doing that even if they were also part of the reason we needed to come back. This team wins. Period. That mental aspect of football counts, especially come playoff time. In another post you had said we could easily be 10-6. However, we’re not 10-6, and I see the fact that we’ve consistently won tight games as a strength for the playoffs where the team’s mental strength and resilience really counts. I’d note that the Pats won 3 SBs in 4 years by 3 points each. They could have been 0-3 in those SBs, but they weren’t. A mental edge (and yeah, maybe a wee bit of cheating) was the difference between being a dynasty and being the Bills.

    I like our chances a lot Sunday. It won’t be easy, but we have that mental edge that few teams have.
     
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  24. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I never said we could easily be 10-6. That was somebody else. I have said that anybody talking about two of their losses being close (the Patriots and overtime loss to the Bears), should also keep in mind the number of close games they won.

    If the Steelers can find their rhythm early, then Tomlin's decision to sit his starters will be proven right. If they offense struggles for a significant portion of the game, especially with Roethlisberger either being off-target with his throws or out of sync with his receivers, it will be a clear sign that it was a huge mistake.

    I agree that this team has shown mental toughness. They can handle being behind. Even the Bears game, they battled back after a terrible first half. The one time they played like crap while losing was against the Jaguars, but they can certainly turn that around Sunday.

    The Steelers are the better team. They should win, but I highly doubt that it will be easy. The Jaguars already proved that they are more than capable of winning in Pittsburgh.
     
  25. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    My bad on the details of what you said (I.e. the 10-6). You actually pointed out that we won 4 close games decided by late field goals in response to my statement that we closed the season 10-1 (and nearly 11-0 but for some unusual circumstances at the end of that Pats game). I do take it the same way though - diminishing in some way the 10-1 end to the season because some of the wins were very close. I can’t say that was your intent, but that’s definitely the context that I took from it. I do stand by what I said that wins and losses are the ultimate stat, and the 10-1 close to the season means more than picking out specific stats. I also stand by my assertion that the defense generally performed better during crunch time when we made those comebacks. I don’t like that we gave up the big plays earlier in those games, but I think it’s undeniable that our defense recovered to play its part in ultimately winning.

    Other than that, I generally agree with what you just said, though if Ben starts out “off” I don’t know that we can automatically attribute it to rust, or whether it’s because the Week 5 game is in his head in a bad way. You never can tell for sure why a player or team executes poorly. It’s always going to beva subjective assessment.
     

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