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Just don’t see us getting by Jacksonville

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Real steel, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. Iowasteelersfan784

    Iowasteelersfan784 Member

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    Id rather be in the Super bowl even if we lost than to not make it there.
     
  2. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    They were more prepared but also Tyrod can't hit the broad side of a barn and his WRs aren't much of a threat. Jacksonville usually only like to rush 4 and use their LBs and DBs in coverage. I think we can exploit them with Bell out of the backfield and our TEs especially McDonald running the seams. Where also think they can be had is on the shallow crosses. NE was smart enough to only drop their LBs extra shallow to prevent that. I'm not sure Jacksonville will choose to do the same and will rely on their standard drops and the speed of their LBs to make up ground underneath. With their Safeties and CB having their hands full with our WR corp the shallow middle and deep seams should be ripe for the picking and our WRs and Ben's ad lib abilities should give them fits and take away how aggressive they play up on our WRs.
    Double moves early to keep them honest and I think those fake screen seem passes will work well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. MeanJoeBlue

    MeanJoeBlue Well-Known Member

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    steelers_week2.jpg
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  4. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    That doesn’t count, it was against their backup QB... oh wait....
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  5. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Much better than the team they lost to by 21 points the first time around? If you're going to adopt my words, at least use them correctly. Football is about more than just the better team. It is about matchups. The Jaguars match up extremely well with the Steelers. They have a strong enough defense to slow Pittsburgh's offense down and they lead the NFL in rushing, which allows the to attack what has been a weak area for the Steelers all season.

    If you understand the point about the decline of the Steelers' defense over the second half of the season, why did you use full-season statistics to counter it? The bottom line is the statistics you used don't address what happened to Pittsburgh the second half of the season.
     
  6. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Funny how that matters to some folks, but the result of the first Pittsburgh-Jacksonville game does not.
     
  7. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    On that, we agree. That is the primary reason I'm concerned about Sunday. The Pittsburgh offense that sucked in the first meeting with Jacksonville is not what we saw the second half of the season. Sure, part of that was the talent of the Jaguars, but it was also part of a long stretch of games in which Roethlisberger looked like a shell of his former self. Smith-Schuster hadn't fully emerged in the offense yet. Bryant still couldn't get on the same page with Roethlisberger. McDonald wasn't making any impact as a receiver. Even Bell hadn't found his stride yet. All of those things improved as the season went on.

    They were also missing Gilbert for that game. Tomlin can go on about how much they trust Hubbard all he wants, but he was terrible against Jacksonville, especially in pass protection. Gilbert is the much better pass blocker of the two.

    All of that said, if they lose the timing and rhythm on offense due to not playing in a game for three weeks, that could be enough to end the Steelers' season early. We saw what happens when you aren't sharp and executing properly against the Jaguars. It gets ugly fast.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. MeanJoeBlue

    MeanJoeBlue Well-Known Member

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    The difference (at least to me), is that some people are saying that the Steelers can't beat the Vikings, even though they already have. Maybe the Vikings would be favored, especially at home, but they wouldn't be favored by much.

    The Jacksonville game is a fairly extreme result (five INTs). They have done it, and could do it again, but with 7 points by odds-makers, it doesn't seem likely.
     
  9. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    It is about match ups, and I believe the Steelers have too many weapons for Jax to cover. And Fournette has hit a wall it seems. I dont think this is a good match up for them at all. Also, their rushing D is worse than ours. Thats a bad match up for them too.

    As for the stats, I believe you are wrong, thats why. Its your claim, you back it up with stats. Im not doing your homework. Show me this drastic difference. Did it suffer without Haden in there? Absolutely, but you'd have to think the Steelers were absolutely shutting down QB's in the first half going by the stats I posted for there to be this big drop off you're claiming.

    Like I said, fan perception is usually off, maybe its mine but I don't think so.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    Ditto... WHAAAAaaa?????
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    Hey folks there is a game to play, no getting around it. No need for any matchup hysteria until they win this one. Nothing more/less. Win and stay in.
     
  12. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    I went back and watched the highlights Blast and granted these are showing the successful plays not so much the ones that didn't work but even with the interceptions and the mistakes by Ben the offense was moving the ball and the vaunted defense of the Jags was getting gashed in the pass and on the ground. Ramsey had no answer for single coverage on Brown. That front seven got some pressure but Ben had throws that looked sharp. Bell had holes and was grinding it. Someone will have to rewatch the whole game maybe and let us know but I think it was drives bogging down near the red zone because of the typical bonehead stuff like throwing for 20 yards on a third and 5, or trying a bubble screen on 1st and 10 at the 40 stuff that slowed them down not the jags feasting Defense.
     
  13. mgsmooth

    mgsmooth Well-Known Member

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    That’s almost as bad as a turnover....the dreaded Bubble Screen!
     
  14. Steelers '08

    Steelers '08 Well-Known Member

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    We have to play good defense and not let Fournette get loose again. I think we’ll put up some points but I think it’s going to come down to our defense. I know Bortles is pretty bad but Fournette isn’t. I don’t see them locking down Brown, Bell, Bryant, Juju, James, and Ben. That’s just to many weapons to try and stop. We have their schemes now to. I think it’s going to be a close game but I hope we blow them out and shut them up!
     
  15. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    It’s been a while, but I watched the All-22 a few times during the week after it happened. I agree with a lot of your observations, especially the play calling gaffes. Also, while Ben had a number of good throws, he also had some throws with horrible ball placement - the likes of which we haven’t seen from him in a few months. The O line also had some breakdowns, but in terms of being flat out beaten it was mainly Hubbard being consistently dominated and a few instances of other guys losing their matchups. Having Gilbert back is a very big plus. I’m hoping to have time to rewatch the tape again before the game.

    I just feel good about this matchup. The Jacksonville defense is very good, but also beatable with smart play calling, execution and Ben making good decisions with ball distribution. If we’ve truly game planned for them, we should be fine.
     
  16. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I did back up my claim with statistics. Please don't be misleading by suggesting otherwise. Your "homework" also included a misleading statistic, as I was talking about the second half of the season and you offered up full-season numbers that were skewed by the team's fast start on defense.

    The Steelers were among the top pass defenses in the league early in the season. As I already mentioned, they didn't give up a single one of those five pass plays of 40-plus yards in the first five games. They became the last team to give up a 40-yard-plus pass play against the Chiefs.

    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/steelers-final-team-nfl-give-passing-play-40-plus-yards/

    Here is more on the issue from the Tribune-Review.

    http://triblive.com/sports/steelers...-has-developed-habit-of-giving-up-deep-passes

    And here is their page on footballreference.com. Look at the game-by-game. They were shutting down quarterbacks early in the season, especially the first five games.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2017.htm

    I'm right. I presented the numbers earlier and I'm presenting more now.
     
  17. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I wasnt trying to be misleading, I wanted to see something that backed up your claim, like the bottom link you provided, that broke it all down. Obviously it was my perception that was off.

    But lets look a little deeper at those games.

    The Stafford game was the first game they got shredded and coincidentally the first elite QB they faced. Before that they waltz through a collection of cream puff QB's. Bortles is no Stafford.

    Next game they gave up big pass plays was the Colts game, the same game they lost Haden. No surprise they got burnt in that game either.

    The other teams they gave up big pass plays to, were Titans and GB. Two games that immediately followed the loss of Haden, one of which has a pretty good QB in Mariota.

    I'd say out of those games, only the GB game could be looked at as concern and as a comparison for Bortles. It was still relatively soon after losing Haden however.

    I won't consider the Cleveland game, I'm not getting worked up about a game that didnt have Heyward on defense and which every player knew was meaningless by Tomlin resting so many starters. The game meant nothing, players absolutely approach games like that differently.

    The fact that they have Haden back and the strong record against soft QBs they had over the first 5 games with him in the lineup, gives me reason to believe they shouldnt struggle with Bortles.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    agreed, the addition of haden tightens up our secondary some. Not all worldy but its viable. Cam makes our d way better because of the pass rush he provides.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    The only game Heyward missed was the Browns, which Blast is trying to dismiss. It's tough to say that is an excuse when his replacement had two sacks.
     
  20. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    The Cleveland game counts whether you like it or not. That rhetorical tactic does not fly.

    Haden in particular played badly in that game, which is a real issue. We haven't seen him prove that he is back to where he was before the injury. His results against the Texans were mixed, though that was certainly as tough a matchup as you can get with Hopkins.

    Big plays aren't the only problem on defense. They are part of the overall issue. Maybe they didn't have as many big passes against the Ravens, but they did give up 38 points. So this silly notion that the Green Bay game was the only legitimate issue is absolutely wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  21. Real steel

    Real steel Well-Known Member

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    This is how I see this game playing out.

    Ben throws a pick six on the opening drive and that takes the crowd out of it.
    The rest of the game Ben has the jags defense in his head.

    Jags 13
    Steelers 6
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 3
    • Very Optimistic Very Optimistic x 1
  22. tbrucemom

    tbrucemom Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if it was MEANT to be funny, but it IS funny and unfortunately true.
     
  23. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I know who REALLY has the Jags defense in his head.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    It means **** but you like to cherry pick games to make your point. Like not counting the SF game or Titans game against the Jags, talk about silly. Or how about losing to Blaine Gabbert.

    We'll find out Sunday but I'm not sweating Bortles.
     
  25. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    eh the whole giving up 38 to raisins talk

    1. its a division game

    2. balt finished 9th in ppg, they picked up steam down the stretch in offense.

    3. jags gave up 37 and 44 to titans and 49ers. Eagles gave up 35 to rams, Vikings 31 to panthers, chargers 30 to chiefs, pats gave up 40 something to chiefs and so forth lol. those are the top defenses

    our defense is good enough.

    1. can get a couple of stops
    2. can get turnovers
    3. can take over portions of the games at times
    4. can pressure the qb

    looks dominant at times and swiss cheese on others. It's up to the offense, the defense is just icing
     

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