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JuJu will Flourish as the #1

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Blast Furnace, May 21, 2019.

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  1. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Please give us an example of Belichik doing what the Steelers did. Unless you can provide that and an example of my reaction to it, you're just making things up again. I will admit it is much easier to win an argument when you make up whatever you want the other side to be, but really, you're just arguing with yourself at that point.

    I can give you an example of Belichik being the beneficiary one of the previous occasions when the Steelers were played, specifically Blount, who should have been suspended the rest of the season rather than allowed to help another contender get better.
     
  2. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    This was very well put.
     
  3. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    The same amount as the rest of the people on this team during that time so we should get rid of them too????? This whole "what has AB or Bell won" talk is hilarious.........
     
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  4. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Right but what you are missing is when the Steelers wanted to trade him to the Bills AB came out and said he didn't want to go and wasn't gonna show up therefore the Bills didn't want to take on that problem. It isn't about the Steelers caving in it is about no other team wanting to take on the AB circus.
     
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  5. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I once had a student who insisted there was no such thing as a Doberman Pinscher with red fur. My family had one as a kid. I even showed him pictures, not just what I found online, but an old photograph of my dog. He still wouldn't budge.
     
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  6. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    They did cave in. They should have taken action against him for breach of contract or simply refused to trade him at that point. The response should have been something like, "Hey, we tried, but you ruined the deal, so you're stuck here. So show up when the mandatory OTA's begin or we start fining you. We look forward to another great year from you. And if you think you're going to sit out all year like Bell, best of luck pulling that off at your age and we will still have you under contract for 2020. You are certainly welcome to retire now. We could us the salary cap relief."
     
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  7. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    If they are about getting paid over the teams success (both provided many examples) yes get rid of them.
    It's not hilarious for a Steelers fan by the way, they expect SBs.
     
  8. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Most of these guys care more about getting paid. You didn't see Roethlisbergber giving the team any discounts on his new extension, did you?
     
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  9. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    It's a forest, trees thing Scribe, I didn't expect you to understand it.
     
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  10. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    No they didn't please show me where the market was for a "older" WR with a contract he wasn't happy with AND causing waves with his current team????? Sorry while I do agree one of the best WR's in the league should have gotten us more like what the Raiders got for Cooper however look at the off field stuff of Cooper and then with AB.........enough said. I have backed AB right until the end, I disagree with a lot of what he done but I do understand where some of it came from. Some here think that was cause I dislike Ben, but that is not true I dislike the off field Ben not the on field Ben....and that is not what this is about. Keeping an unhappy AB here is just plain dumb no matter how you look at it. Cut bait and get what you can and move on which is what the Steelers did. Could they have done what you said hell yeah but really what good would that be for our team?????
     
  11. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Don't try and twist this, I was pointing out your comment about that we won with AB.......well Ben was here the same time what did we win with him in that time frame.....that is what is hilarious, you can't blame just AB or just Ben or just Tomlin........it is a team game man. I will put Ben and AB's numbers up against anyone during that time frame there wasn't a better duo, hard to blame either is my point. But I get it haters wanna hate on AB and that is fine but when he was here there was nobody better plain and simple........I hope he falls off the face of the earth now!
     
  12. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    The hilarious part of this conversation is that "AB is a winner". I don't hate AB it's more pity. I do hate to put AB with the gifted but not much of a leader type.
     
  13. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who wants to try and hang their hat on the Ben “made AB fallacy,I encourage them to look at the list of WRs drafted in Bens career and see how many ABs were “made” . Does it help a great WR to have a great QB throwing them the ball? Of course, and vice versa. It was one of the best connections of all time but that fact gets dismissed in the attempts to downplay how great a WR AB was while here.

    The whole we didn’t win with this guy or that guy angle is ludicrous....but in the way Mike Tyson would say it :smiley1:
     
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  14. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    AB was a winner while here just because he didn't win a SB don't make him a loser. The guy was at the top of the stat chart for his position, show me another player in AB's time frame that was at the top of their position as far as stats went............you won't. Like I said this is a team game, we scored 42 points in a playoff game and lost was that AB's fault????? Come on do better than that............
     
  15. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Randy Moss. Demanded a trade and got one.

    If you think Belichick would tolerate a player quitting on his team you're delusional. AB would have been gone long before he ever got a chance to walk out on the team with all his bs prior to that.

    I don't make things up, Scribe, thats your department.
     
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  16. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    That sounds like a neat looking dog.
     
  17. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Really? Did you see the extension vs. the Ravens that literally saved a season? Did you see how he balled out vs. Jacksonville in the horrible playoff loss in his first game back after a painful leg injury? How about a game a few years ago where he had around 270 yards, and had a key long catch and run from Jones to help seal a win after Ben got hurt? Fact is: AB was a GREAT WR over the past few years. No amount of off the field BS can take away from what he achieved here. He was absolutely a winner. A whiner too, but a winner nonetheless.
     
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  18. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    You're the one who said the Steelers should've called AB's bluff, so him trashing Ben wasn't going to work out, it was time for him to move on.
     
  19. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Actually, you do it all the time. You've written quite a few fictional stories about me alone.

    The Moss situation was close, but there are significant differences. Moss hadn't spent his entire career with one team. He hadn't threatened to hold out only to cave, as Brown did once already. He had a history of dogging it when he wasn't happy, something we haven't seen from Brown. Also, I'm not sure if the contract situations were the same, but I don't remember Moss scuttling a trade attempt by the Patriots. I've said many times that was the point at which the Steelers should have called his bluff. Once he set about actually ruining his trade value, it was idiotic to continue to give him what he wanted.

    But hey, let's stipulate that they are the same thing. Please provide an example of my reaction to the Moss trade then. You didn't just make a claim regarding the situations being the same. You made a claim regarding my reaction. Please, back it up. Show us the evidence.
     
  20. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Why not? Roethlisberger didn't care. Hell, he even tried to play nice after Brown was gone. If the Steelers had called Brown's bluff, that would have been a win for Roethlisberger. The only guy who would have had reason to be embarrassed in that situation would have been Brown.
     
  21. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It serves two purposes. One, it demonstrates that players who don't like their contracts can't just whine their way out of Pittsburgh. Two, Brown has to either retire or severely damage his career or play. If he plays, that's better than the pittance they got in return.

    They caved. Part of the reason the market was so weak was that Brown kept scuttling his own trade value. Once he ruined the deal with the Bills, the efforts to trade him should have come to an end.
     
  22. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    What are you even talking about? Did you hit your head? Seriously, you haven't been making much sense lately.

    Regarding the rest of your post, minor circumstances are different but the bottom line is you are claiming that teams shouldn't cave to players demands because it sets a bad precedent. So did the best coach in the league get played too? Which is the gist of my OP no matter how hard you are trying to make it into something different.

    You're problem is you don't think player distractions are that big a deal. They most definitely are and the Steelers felt it best to part ways with AB at all costs. They didn't cave, they removed a cancer.
     
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  23. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    This thread reminds me of a dog chasing it's tail. :rolleyes:
     
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  24. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    What you aren't getting is something I have learned from being a parent and a teacher. If you let one person/child/student get his or her way by throwing a tantrum, you won't remove the problem. You will just encourage more tantrums.

    I'm not talking about the "gist" of your post. I'm talking about the actual content. You are once again moving the goalposts upon finding their previous location does not suit your narrative. You made up yet another story and upon being called out for it, you are avoiding it. Please concede that you can't back up your claim and we will try to have an honest discussion.

    While we wait for you to come clean on that, there are other significant ways the Moss situation was different. Given that you still keep playing the same game, I'm done conceding your flawed point comparing the Moss and Brown situations. Belichik didn't help create the issue by letting Moss do whatever he pleased for years as Tomlin did with Brown. If the Steelers did cut out any cancer, and I'm not even sure that is accurate, they missed a huge part of the tumor. You can't just treat part of the problem. The cancer is going to get you anyway if you do.

    The most important issue, the one you just tried to gloss over without addressing, is that Brown actively worked against the Steelers in their pursuit of a trade for him. He actually ruined a deal they had done by saying he wouldn't report to the Bills. Did Moss do something like that? Sorry, but that is too large of a difference to dismiss.

    If Moss had done that as well, then yes, I would say Belichik got played, too. Even the best coach in the game can make a mistake.
     
  25. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    They did what they thought was in the best interest of the organization.

    It's clear as day that if the Steelers did as you suggested it wouldn't had accomplished anything with a head case like Brown. They essentially would have to save a valuable roster spot for Brown regardless if Brown showed up or not. At the end of the day it was better to move on and get something than nothing for Brown. Playing hard ball with head cases and disgruntled players rarely if ever works out. Always better to let those types of players move on and be another team's problem.

    The Steelers made the right decision. Hopefully the picks the Steelers received for Brown turn into solid pros.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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