JC done

Makes a ton of sense but we made him seem like the second coming with that fast NFL start he had and now we expect and want it all the time. Sadly it does not work that way.

 

Nope never liked pie. Kramer liked pie but not I.

 

For one, I caught you being factually incorrect when you claimed that everyone here was posting that Brown hasn't lost a step.

 

No one has proven that Brown hasn't lost a step, so that is a possible reason for the drop in his production. Please clarify what you mean by the "Ben target myth" and provide evidence of the debunking. Also, please provide evidence to support your claim that the route concepts haven't changed. Are we to believe that you now have access to the playbook or some other in-depth knowledge of the route concepts?

I am one of the everybody here. Your lame personal attack does not save you from the factual error that you made. Nice try, but once again you fail. It's almost as if you truly suck at this.

You haven't proven that Brown is being double-teamed more than in past seasons. Your entire claim is based on a premise that you can't support. Your argument fails until you provide that evidence. Of course, you won't do that. You keep relying on the crutch of ad hominem attacks, one of which was quite offensive.

 

I don't think Conner is all that, but if he makes the Pro Bowl it will be because of his play, not because he's a cancer survivor.

 

Others have fumbled less and got worst. Like Ridley. He fumbled once and he has not seen the rest of the game or the next I believe.

 

I wasnt talking about the cancer thing.

 

Ridley was never good. Even with NE he was below average at best.

 

Another numbers guy. So we should be saying ben isnt elite anymore right? Anyways lets use context. Both Gurley and Zeke are the primary workhorses for their offense. Let's start with Zeke, the cowboys are 5-1 when he rushes for 100 yards or more. They are 1 and 5 when he doesn't and their one win came against the pathetic NY giants. And this is with Zeke being the primary guy teams focus on stopping in Dallas. Last yr when Zeke was suspended they had the worst offense in the entire nfl. He makes their offense go. Conner does not make the Steelers go. Also Zeke is averaging nearly 100 yds rushing a game. Conner is averaging 77... and zeke's longest pass catch of the season was a down the field route vs Detroit to setup the cowboys game winning g field goal. Conners longest was a dump off route that he ran for a long gain. We won against very good defenses in jax and carolina without him producing much. We tied the browns when he had arguably his best game of the year. This team is led by ben.

Let's go to Gurley. He does have a very good qb in golf who currently is playing better than everyone not named mahomes,brees, or luck. But with him having that QB he is still leading the nfl in y/a per any back with 155 plus Carries thus far. And he also leads in tds. This is AFTER he just had an mvp level season and teams GAMEPLANNING TO STOP HIM this offseason. No one this offseason was gameplanning to stop conner. Most before week 1 like the players for pitt, fans, and media/analysts thought bell would be the starter week 1 until halfway through that week. Teams start game planning for players and teams MONTHS before the season. Gurley also far outpaces conner in yds a game.

I'm not going case by case for everyone for everyone as it would take too much but I will now move to advanced stats as the normal stats dont have context . From football outsiders if I had a pff subscription I'd use them but I dont this ye so here is this. Running backs are ranked according to DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the performance on plays where this RB carried/caught the ball compared to replacement level, adjusted for situation and opponent and then translated into yardage. Let's look at DYAR. Gurley is 1, kamara is 4th, hunt 8th, Zeke is 9, saqoun(with one of the worst olines in the nfl) is 13th and conner is 15th.

The next statistic given is DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average running back in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance. Negative DVOA represents below-average offense.

Gurley: 19.5
Kamara: 17.1
Hunt: 7.2
Zeke: 2.5
Saquon:0.7
Conner: -0.9
And remember NEGATIVE DVOA represents below-average offense. None of those guys had negative accept conner. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. But if you need case by case I can do kamara, hunt, and saquon later.

 

Much of this thread turned into a tangent about the decline in Brown's production and Analyst's theory that it is due to the loss of Bell, so I'll add this here. Another cause for his decline is the loss of Martavis Bryant. I'm not saying it was a bad trade. Dealing him made sense, but they haven't adequately replaced Bryant. I don't just mean his production. Bryant was a threat the defense had to address. His size and speed present a matchup nightmare. He was the primary deep threat, which created more openings for Brown when he was on the field. Washington seems to be getting those snaps now and he certainly isn't much of a threat.

This doesn't fully account for Brown. For one thing, Smith-Schuster has been a major weapon from day one and he has taken some of the deep targets that used to go to Bryant. That said, remember that Roethlisberger was forcing the ball to Brown even more the first half of last season. Smith-Schuster has taken more short and intermediate targets from Brown, but he still isn't drawing the defensive attention as much.

 

I never said they did prove that. There is no proof in that. I'm sure some advanced metric maybe could calculate the amount of separation he is getting form this yr in comaproosn to last but that's all I could think off to calculate his speed now. And the double team scenario is just common football knowledge. If you seriously think teams werent game planning last yr against a top 5 player in the nfl ranked by his peers who was universally regarded as the best rb in the world and thus since hes no longer there are now focusing on the only PROVEN superstar on the team idk what type of common sense you have. Maybe you arent a person who can infer and read between lines but instead need everything to he laid put in a silver platter in front of you. It's almost as if you truly think you are a somebody when you are a nobody. Like I said I don't care about you. If you take that personal thats on you but I take nothing personal from here because like I've stated you are irrelevant.

As for the Ben target thing I clearly pointed out how ab was 3rd in the league in targets and only 3 behind Julio and Adam T. But maybe you were so focused on trying make yourself feel like you are something that the stat flew right over your head.

 

Please outline how DVOA is calculated. You didn't provide a source or an explanation of why we should accept that statistic. It's not as if it is something commonly used or accepted by all as a proper measure of a player's value. Most of these adjusted statistics in any sport have a large subjective element to them.

 

Can you show some proof from anything the former coaches that played us said they had to match the speed and length of martavis. Do you have video of their game plans or film sessions? Do you have a recorded tape of what they said in their installation meetings? Can you show a stat or something showing juju isnt getting much defensive attention?

 

I clearly said it was football outsiders. "' Im not going case by case for everyone for everyone as it would take too much but I will now move to advanced stats as the normal stats dont have context . From FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS if I had a pff subscription I'd use them but I dont this year so here is this".

 

My point was that you once again made your point in an unclear manner. It's a habit of yours, due in large part to your mangling of the English language.

Bell was not universally regarded as the best running back in the world. There were plenty of experts who argued that Gurley is better now even before the season. Once again, you are presenting faulty information to try to prop up your failed argument.

The personal attacks are getting tiresome. It's not that you are the only person who can make an inference, it is that your inferences are flawed. You are claiming thing were debunked without providing evidence. You are claiming there is one cause for Brown's decline even though I have provided many other possible reasons. Your rhetoric is dishonest, inaccurate and your credibility is ruined by the failures in logic and inability to master even the basics of English.

 

Here is a direct link www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

 

Do you have proof that Brown hasn't lost a step? Do you have quotes from other coaches saying they had to account for Bell but they aren't really doing that for Conner? I'm not arguing for one theory behind Brown's decline. I'm pointing out that there many valid theories. I'm not trying to prove any particular one of them. I'm saying they are possible, thus invalidating the only real evidence you have presented to support your claim.

 

Great. Now give us an argument why it is valid. If you're going to use some statistic that is not commonly accepted or used, you should be able to justify it.

 

Let's see. Nfl top 100 players list voted by the players who Know much more than you, have accomplished more in life, and are much more relevant then you ever thought about being outside this board voted him TOP 5 ahead of Gurley http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000930293/Top-100-Players-of-2018.

That usurps anyone else you would try to say said the latter. I can also provide links to hall of famers like Shannon sharpe, Lt, Deion, cris carter etc... saying Bell was the best back in the NFL. But I will provide more rankings and lists for you even though I already provided the best one. The only guy I remember calling Gurley the best was The Great Eric Dickerson/ the rambassador so we know why he went with who he went with.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...d-gurley-lead-nfls-top-running-backs-for-2018 Maurice jones drew. Another guy who knows way more than you ever will.

now I do agree that now gurley is the best back in the NFL but prior to last year that was Le'Veon Andrew Bell. And trust im a big gurley fan he is a Carolina boy.

now this reference is for prior arguments but here is jermo bettis talking about the impact of the steelers not having leveon https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.c...tance-of-the-steelers-getting-him-signed-news

 

I never said if brown did or didn't lose a step. I said people here said he hadn't. Idk if he has or he hasn't. That would have to be something players would know. Im not lining up with or against AB. everything looks different on tv than when you are between the numbers. The speed of college at first really shocked me my first few weeks of practice because I was only looking a tv and film. I cant imagine if I was at A&t when Tarik cohen was here my god but anyways that is just normally a general rule about football. You line up to stop the run but I will give you this with how the rules are in the nfl you may play pass first now lol. Usually though you lined up to stop the run especially when the team had a elite talent in the backfield. And you just proved my point about you. Its possible for you to throw out theories with no evidence but it was so impossible for me to state AB may be getting double teamed more due to the fact we lost a top 5 player in this league and thus teams can now solely focus on AB as conner is still unproven... Thank you for making my point.

 

justify to me what you have done In your life to debunk their methods of grading football players. what more do you know than them?

 

This is as exhausting as watching the Rams vs KC.

 

P.M.?