Jason Garrett did it, Tomlin can.

I think that is a pretty fair assessment, and even though I am down on Tomlin right now, I am still really wondering if the guy has had a chance to implement the team he wants or whether the Rooneys along with Colbert have been heavily involved. I think LeBeau's influence has been huge and may override Tomlin and he wanted to keep Arians and was basically forced to let him go (I was all for that). Part of me still wonders too if the Rooneys have trusted Tomlin less over time...i.e. maybe they have deduced that Tomlin doesn't know what the hell he is trying to build.

The shame of this season right now is the Steelers really do not have that bad of a schedule, no West Coast trips, playing a below average AFC South and what appears to be a mediocre NFC South division and then the Browns twice. For all the love being heaped on the Browns so far they are in the bottom third both offensively and defensively. You may think next year can get better, but the Steelers will have a murderous schedule next year with trips to Seattle, Arizona, San Diego, and Oakland <as we know a house of horrors for the Steelers>. In addition, they will have to play at home again Denver and San Francisco. And of course the AFC North will remain very competitive. Sorry to say, but next year could be the real train wreck for Tomlin.

 

Tomlin started in 2007, correct? That's 7 years, he has steered us into these rough waters. There is no excuse for Tomlin, he's had time to put his stamp on the team (and sadly mediocrity seems to be his stamp)

Tomlin's record first 5 years 55-25
Tomlin's record last 2 1/2 years 19-19

I am of the belief that the first 4-5 years we had solid left over players from the Cowher years, real vet leaders, they have all but gone now or aged to the point where they aren't effective. I can't say who's fault it is, but Tomlin is the man in charge on the field and does not appear to have what it takes to correct this course. I thank him for his time and motivational skills to bring us #6, but don't think he has the wherewithal to build a great team.

 

I think they always had thankfulness that they weren't the Lions.

 

That's pretty much what I think too. Tomlin does deserve some props, when he first came in he didn't so much bring a vision as he brought an attitude about how to view and approach the job. I think he was tough enough but also calm enough that played well with a veteran team. Cowher was a great coach, but let's face it, the guy could poop out a diamond during the playoffs. Tomlin wasn't like that. I think that made somewhat of difference during those playoff runs and because of that he deserves quite a bit of credit for getting the 6th Lombardi.

But now we need a vision guy, someone who truly knows how he wants to shape the team in-line with how the NFL has changed and I just don't see that in Tomlin.

 

ABSOLUTELY!!

On a ship, you don't blame the navigation instruments or the ship owner... The blame for troubles is the captain (sorry Santeesteel.. you would definitely know more than me).

Tomlin is our captain of the ship. Its time to right the ship or leave. Period.

 

Amen to this

 

Keeping in mind that Cowher was gifted with some pertty great players after the Noll era.

 

The problem with your argument is that Garrett took over an 8-8 mediocre team and is now starting to see results. Tomlin took over a championship team that has degraded more and more each year. So yes, it took Seattle years to build a great team, the same way it has taken Tomlin years to destroy a great team.

 

Technically we 8-8, realistically we are a championship contender right off the bat. Either way, that is all irrelevant now. What isn't irrelevant though is that we didn't "need" to rebuild. Just because a team is at the top of the league for 5 years or so doesn't mean it then has to rebuild and become a bottom feeder for several years. NE has remained at the top. Manning's Indy teams were always at the top. GB with Rodgers is always at the top. Sure, those teams have down years, but they are generally always playoff contenders, if not SB contenders every year. Those teams have lost a lot of talent over the years, but they didn't go into a 4-5 year rebuild. Not to mention that we weren't a top team for that long anyway. We won 2 SB's, but between those we had a couple down years where we had a higher draft pick.

The issue is almost every single player we have drafted under the Tomlin era has not panned out. We have had a bad Oline since 2007. Seriously, we've had the same problem since 2007 and it's still not fixed. That's ridiculous. On top of that, free agents we sign don't pan out. They don't even play average, they flat out suck. That is why we are in the situation we're in, horrid drafting and bad player development. If that's not on Tomlin, it means the Rooney's don't have enough confidence in him to let him be apart of our drafting process (which I don't believe for a second). If that's the case, it's an entirely separate problem, but a huge one. In that case, the Rooney's should bring in someone they have full confidence in. No sense in keeping a neutered coach around that has no power to run the team. If Tomlin is heavily involved like I think he is, then the reason we are rebuilding is due to him, not due to the fact we were near the top of the league for many years (which hasn't really been the case anyway). We've had plenty of high draft picks during the Tomlin era, yet almost none of them have panned out. Player development, bad drafting or both? Who cares, both are on tomlin anyway.

As for firing Jason Garrett, I've been saying to a Cowboys friend of mine for years that he's a good coach and Jerry Jones needs to let him coach the team without interference, so no, I wouldn't have wanted him fired if I was a cowboys coach

 

Yes, but he won with Cowher's players. The talent has dropped significantly after that. In the words of Hines Ward: "I don't even know who these guys are."

 

I wouldn't make Garrett coach of the year quite yet! The combined win loss record of the 5 teams they beat is below 500, and beating seattle at home isnt going to be the first time that happened in seattle, the cards beat them at home last year and the hawks went on to finish 13-3 and win the superbowl, and heres a shocker for ya, I expect the NYGs to beat dallas sunday and the Eagles to win that division...

 

But it hasn't happened to him and it won't as long as he has Brady, and it may not post-Brady either. It also didn't happen to any Manning led colts team . It's also not going to happen to luck or Rodgers . Those teams will never be as bad as we are right now. It hasn't happened and won't happen . It's not a fluke that the patriots and colts never had to rebuild all those years.

 

argument invalidated- you watch first take.

 

Just for comparison

Cowher's record first 6 yrs: 64-32 (.666) compared to Tomlin's 55-25 (.687)
Cowher's record the next 3yrs: 22-26 (.468) compared to 19-19 (.500)

fairly similar. Cowher got a chance to right things. I'm betting Tomlin does too.

I prepare now for the barrage of "yeah, but it's really different now" comments

 

I'm not saying Cowher didn't have his problems. But two words explain the cowher 22-26....... Kordell Stewart. :this:

 

The Steelers haven't become a bottom feeder for years just yet. Eventually, the best of teams need to rebuild for different reasons. Not one great team in the history of this league made a seamless transition from one great team into another great team.

Rodgers, Manning, and Brady are all better QB's than Ben. Their offenses were generally better and able to produce more points than Steelers offenses. Point production might put less pressure on a defense to be great every week.

The Packers record last season was 8-7-1. If the Packers played in a better division they wouldn't had made the playoffs. The 10-6 Cards had a better record but were kept of of the playoffs because their division was better.

I think it's false statement that almost every single draft pick has not panned out under Tomlin. The fact is that most draft picks don't pan out at the highest level. Several draft picks panned out under this coaching staff. Many of the picks for this team were/are productive players. Whether those players were good enough is another issue. Tomlin isn't the only person responsible for the draft selections. It's a collective effort within the organization. Maybe decision was made by the ownership to over ride the GM, coaches, and scouts on several draft selections??

One thing that I do know is that it's difficult to build a consistent winner. Another thing, the Steelers haven't had a losing season with Tomlin as the HC. The Steelers have shown the ability to a good team. They've also shown flashes of being a bad and inconsistent team. This Jekyll and Hide nature is kind of similar to the rest of the teams in the league. Let's see how this season plays out.

 

I guess my question is are we really rebuilding, or are we just trading out various problems from one week/season to the next?

 

Teams are generally rebuilding their rosters every 4 to 5 years. Key players might stick around longer based on different circumstances. One of the key players for the Steelers (Ben) hasn't played particularly well this year.

The Steelers are rebuilding to the extent that they are attempting to find the right mix of players that gives the team the best chance to make the playoffs. Anything can happen in a crazy league where there is not one dominant team.

 

I am willing to keep Tomlin as long as he cleans house in terms of coordinators, especially Haley. We need someone who can call a good game. I would love Charlie Weiss as much as that sickens me to say it. I also think we need a change in defensive philosophy. It is time for LeBeau to go enjoy his retirement. I love the guy but we need a fresh face. My thought would be Rex Ryan. Could you imagine having Weiss & Ryan as the two coordinators? I think that would be a huge improvement over what we have. I think they would be able to get the most out of this team.

I am giving up on this season but that sun is setting pretty quickly. The next 2 weeks should tell us which direction this team is going...

 

They are rebuilding for sure but making mistakes here and there. I laugh when people talk about a total rebuilding or shakedown. We have remained competitive throughout these many years because we are not doing a total rebuild.

Some of their choices in the draft make you wonder but the Steelers are not alone. Other teams drafts are questionable as well.