Jarvis Jones underperforming?

Jarvis has the motivation along with speed but no secret lacks strength and size. 90% of the snaps he gets manhandled the other 10% his quickness contributes making the turn getting in rushes/hurries. IMO he will never be a dominate OLB in the NFL but rather an accident prone victim. His size concerned me from day one thinking in the off season we'd see a difference this yr. You can't make production sitting on the bench. With his DNA i don't see him changing much in the physical sense. Maybe in the off season Hans & Franz can help pump him up.

 

He doesn't have that explosive first step like some of the other pass rushers like a Von Miller, nor does he have the strength of other Steelers OLBs like Harrison or Woodley. I don't see him being a double digit sack guy.

 

Bingo. And our division is full of good LTs. The good news is, he can and will play both sides. He did so in college. That doesn't sound like such a big deal, but if you think about it, many of our greats only ever played one side. Harrison took probably 5% of his snaps on the left. I think Woodley hadn't taken a single snap on the right until his last year with us.

Jarvis only has to play on the right side here because Worilds has to play on the left. If we can find a good replacement at ROLB, Jarvis could flourish on the left side next year.

 

I wonder what the excuses will be next year

 

I agree with everyone saying he should play the left side. His best chance is on the left.maybe HoJo will be ready to step up next year he already has the size and athleticism,hopefully Porter has been on his ass .

 

LOL

 

Is missing 10 weeks not a valid excuse? I think it's a pretty good one.

I think it's much more likely Arthur Moats plays there. I would be completely shocked if HoJo did any better than the #4 next year.

I like Moats, but he's not going to be the long-term answer either. I think he's a great backup and relief guy. We better not miss on our next pick.

 

Wow what a tough crowd. The dude had a pretty significant wrist injury, it's not like he was demoted to backup due to poor play. Heck he may be leading the team in sacks if he doesn't get injured.

 

I will give him one more season. That's when all our linebackers start to shine...heck worlids wasn't that great in the beginning of year but always end strong. I wanted CJ moseley in this years draft but we got shazier

 

I started typing this yesterday and never got to finish it so here we go again. Saw today that the Pats placed their #1 draft pick who had shown flashes this year on IR ending his season, he was a defensive lineman. So here is my question and I don't want to derail the thread too much but this has to be asked. Those of you who say either DL's systems is too complex and they need a system where 1st round picks con flourish from day one and not after three years when they know everything and are comfortable or those who expect more out of JJ because of his 1st round status. Please name a 1st round defensive player in a 3-4, 4-3, tampa-2, 3-4/4-3 hybrid, the 46, that has just floored people with his play from day one. It is possible that a CB could but I can't remember one heck I can't even name a 1st round player from this year's draft who hasn't struggled, they have shown flashes like Jones has, but they growing pains are there. Clowney who everyone thought they should move up and get, fizzled quick, Barr who everyone said was a reach for the Vikings has shown to be a solid pick and even won a game for them but he too has had growing pains as well. Shazier showed flashes but also looked lost out there. If it is simply where they got drafted that is everyone's problem then from here on out Jones, Shazier Cam Heyward, Decastro, and anyone else will now be 7th round picks, Steeler Nation what say you? Jus tto lower expectations

 

I agree about lowering expectations. I've been 100% happy with the way they've handled their last two first rounders, Shazier and Jarvis. They worked Jarvis in, and when the battle was a tie, they gave it to the rookie. Shazier they just gave the role, which was out of character, but I think the right move. He's special. Don't dilly-dally. If he sucks, pull him. But get him out there.

What I have issue with is the way they handled the guys before that, like Cam Heyward. He was clearly a better physical athlete than the other guys they had, and he was a high investment, and showed well in preseason, but they practically refused to play him. He sat while Ziggy and Keisel - and worse - exhausted themselves on the field. You're telling me Cam couldn't even rush the passer right? BS. They were just coaching scared. It's one thing to do that for the first half of a guy's first season, like they did with Tuitt, but they did that with Cam for over 2 years.

At least things are headed in the right direction! They've finally realized that mistakes by a vet and mistakes by a rookie amount to the same thing.

 

that's a good point and I agree with you. I cant think of anyone except that linebacker in Carolina. cant think of his name and I may be off about his rookie year.
I always try and wait 4 years before I call anyone a bust

 

Good article in the post by Ron Cook about Heyward and Keisel.

 

There are others. In a world where we all knew then and has been proven throughout this year we needed to draft a CB that had a solid chance of not only making the 53 but also a chance to log some defensive snaps. In the 3rd we took Dri archer. Bashaud Breeland was still there. We didn't need Dri and needed Breeland BUT our philosophy of BPA ( in some-ones mind ) placed dri over everyone else.... poor assessments!!!!

Our complicated defensive is becoming tiresome as a excuse for not playing rookies/young players. Sure, the complexities adds to the delay or reduced snap counts but the real reason is trust. With a win now attitude they have trouble trusting youngsters with there responsibilities. Keeping Heyward on the Bench while playing an inferior Hood was puzzling. Keeping Tuitt on the bench while moving an ineffective NT in Cam Thomas to an out of position DE was stupid. Keeping Shark on the bench and even Golden is because they don't trust them and trust the veteran guy in allen. They always trust the vet over the youngster even if it hampers their development and even if the youngster has better physical skills. Its a win now league coaches are judged by wins, not player development.

Cajun-

 

Ok so now that we have established that there have been players that have enjoyed success in their rookie campaign let's look at expectations. My main point in this isn't that there aren't 1st round players who are successful at first but open the discussion up to what are the expectations, what scheme seems to allow the most success with limited amount of experience. I agree with Cajun and Snack there should be ways to get talented players in the game even with limited experience. The problem being DL's methodology and scheme are tried and true. It takes 3 years for everything to click we know this, it also is a very successful scheme. So how do they adapt it. In Jarvis's case I think no matter what people are thinking he should be at or near Harrison/Woodley from day one bUT seem to forget they weren't Harrison/Woodley from day one. In the instances Steel elvis mentioned some of those were solid defenses these guys stepped into while Jones and Shazier have stepped into a defense very much in transition.

 

To add to Steel and Cajun . That is the problem with the BPA system , it needs to be weighted on position first or lack there of . Now the point Cajun is making is our players we do draft almost never see the field until there contract is up . In the past you could say because the guys in front of them were just better.

Well we can't say that now so it must be a trust or a complicated scheme issue . I say it is a trust issue caused by a complicated scheme .

My huge problem is Troy is on his last leg and Will Allen is a temporary fix at best and can Shamarko even play the postion or Not ? Who knows that's a problem .

We need to start doing like the Pats , we need to blow Teams out and get the young guys on the field in real game situations . This is the only real way to see your depth don't wait til you have no choice ,but play them to see if they can play. Be aggressive so you can make player decisions based on in game work , not off of who holds the clipboards the best...

 

To answer your post Thorn. The way I think it would be best is to insert players quicker would be work from one end of the D first . This is how a lot of high school Coaches have built great Defenses .

In the new National Fantasy League you must be able to stop the pass , all will agree on that . Some will never agree that it starts on the back end , but you need to pick the side you want to have as your bread and butter. If it is the front 7 then you should keep attacking the draft until you have a great front 7 with good backups.

If you believe as I do then you should keep stacking CB'S and Safeties until you have 1 of the best sets in the NFL .

My theory is half good here and half good there is basically no good.
Great on 1 end and fair on another can play great if schemed right. This approach allows you to focus on what you know you need to focus on...

 

I think with another offseason, combined with more training will help him. He will be a great backup and rotational player. Not #1 draft worthy, but he was coming Along nicely before the injury. Hopefully Howard jones steps up and we draft a good OLB. Give Jarvis time, he will surprise us.

 

Gaines would've been a better pick in the third round than Archer that's for sure. The Steelers need a simpler scheme on defense so these rookies can pick it up sooner. LeBeau's scheme isn't that effective anymore, it's time for a change.

 

i was screaming too

 

In defense of the team:

The way the Steelers do BPA doesn't literally mean Best Player Available. We wouldn't take a QB in the 1st round. Even one in the 4th seemed high. We haven't taken 1st round running backs in back to back drafts, like Carolina. BPA just means not reaching for need. You take the BPA out of the positions you do need, and if one is a higher need than another (CB over ILB) you let the caliber of the player determine who you draft, instead of saying, "We need a corner, so let's take the best corner left." If we'd taken Shazier over Fuller, to me that would be truly controversial. But it's easy to see why Shazier was viewed as significantly better than Dennard. His ceiling is way higher. Also, it's easy to say ILB isn't a need right now, with Williams and Spence playing well, but they were both pretty big question marks at draft time.

Not in defense of the team:

Gaines was my pick in the 5th, when we took Shaq. They just can't draft CBs. And I wasn't nuts about the Archer pick, but I knew I'd be happy with it as long as they utilized him. But they haven't! They give him one snap per game and then deactivate him. That's another area - drafting vs. playing - that the team struggles with sometimes. Archer is not your average player. He's special: especially small, especially fast. You need plans. WHY draft this guy without a plan to use him? Put him out there, run all the Darren Sproles plays you can, and see how he does. Put him at receiver once in awhile. Bell can't play every snap, and Bell can't do the things Archer can do. I just don't get that. To me, that's what makes it a bad pick - the head and body aren't communicating. Don't draft a guy you have no desire to play.

But hey, maybe they will give him a chance next year.

 

Fuller was really good in some games I watched him in earlier. He was really a bright spot in a HORRIFIC Bears defense. I hope Shazier pans out but if he doesn't and Fuller does that one will probably sting me for a while.