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Is Tomlin simply the product of a great organization with an elite quarterback?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by JackAttack 5958, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    I've been asking myself this question lately and I'm not sure I've arrived at a definitive answer but here it is. Is Tomlin simply the product of a GREAT organization with an elite quarterback? To put the question into context, could any decent to average coach have regular season success with the Steelers organization the way it's been built over the years, especially when the team has arguably the greatest quarterback in the franchise's history? Something to ponder. :hmm:
     
  2. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin won the lottery for sure to come to an organization like this, but I wouldn't say he didn't deserve the job.

    But I think he might need to tighten the reigns a bit discipline wise. When he was first hired he had a veteran team that self policed themselves.

    This team current team is running their traps a bit too much.
     
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  3. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    To answer the question of the thread: YES
     
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  4. mex

    mex Active Member

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    I think he definitely got lucky with the team he inherited. Having said that, I also believe that Tomlin is an incredible motivator. Even if the team had tough stretches he managed to get them back to winning. Where his skills are lacking is professionalism in my opinion. Making sure the team doesn't underestimate opponents, being prepared, making sure the players behave professionally as well, etc. I think this was the perfect combination in the beginning, as players like Farrior, Ward and Miller were there to keep the professionalism up while Tomlin managed to get them through mentally tough phases. Now with players like Bell that isn't sufficient anymore. I agree with Da Stellars, that he needs to tighten the reigns a little bit in order for the Steelers to win another championship.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    You're both right. I think when he came in he was in an ideal situation, which he handled well at the time (i.e. team flooded with veteran leaders). But without those vets, he is floundering and the team is not buttoned down at all. They now underachieve in the postseason. I don't know if he is capable of doing anything about it.
     
  6. knab70

    knab70 Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin is simply a product in a great organization PERIOD!!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he is capable of tightening anything. He is lost.
     
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  8. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    He's a great regular season coach, but him building his team and trying to manage it is another thing.
     
  9. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    What you say about him being a good regular season coach is a good point and I've said that myself. I think an appropriate analogy is the chess/checker analogy. Tomlin is a darn good checker player. You can win ALOT of games being a good checker player because you're going to be playing against teams which have coaches that play checkers. However, when you get into more meaningful games with better coached teams, especially in the post season, you're going against some really good CHESS players. Tomlin is not a good chess player. Does that analogy make sense at all?
     
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  10. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    Hard to make that determination and will never be known. I do think we have gotten all that we are going to get from Mike and what you've seen is what it is. 13-3 is a great year (even though it was the ugliest 13-3 I've seen for some time) but my expectations are we're at a high water mark with the current staff.
     
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  11. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, but the '17 Steelers are one of, if not the worst 13-3 team I have witnessed. They played like a 9-7 or worse team vs. the Jaguars.

    This team will not be anywhere close to 13-3 next year. I say 10 wins, max... and that's all dependent on improvements on the D side of the ball.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    He can start with himself....did I miss the part where he comes out and takes responsibility for the piss poor performance we saw. That's what people who have accountability do...no wonder there is none on this team. I don't pay too much attention to the other teams but it's safe to say you don't hear the noise coming from the other teams especially the successful ones....
     
  13. BadwordLebeau

    BadwordLebeau Well-Known Member

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    Look no further than the AFCCG. The Jags offense was doing to the Patriots defense what they were doing to the Steeler defense one week earlier. The difference, we do not have a head coach capable of stepping in and making the type of adjustments that the Patriots did. Had Tomlin been the coach of the Patriots I am convinced they would have lost. Belichick took a gamble. It was a calculated one but he was willing to try something probably as a last resort in order to affect change. Tomlin appeared to do nothing and hope that the offense could outscore them

    I’m tired of the “let’s keep banging our head against the wall and hope it eventually falls” mentality.
     
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  14. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin and the Steelers have been pretty good together up to this point. It's difficult for some people to appreciate the success when all those people seem to do is focus on what they perceive as failures.

    This team had a good season this year. They should be in the thick of things again next season.
     
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  15. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    I'm already concerned about next season. I don't think the offense will be any better than it was under Haley and if anything I think it may regress under Fichtner who's approach will probably be to acquiesce to Ben. Tomlin has shown weak leadership at this point by refusing to do anything with his defensive coaching staff which is underperforming. We don't have that much cap space to be a player in free agency this year and will be bargain shopping yet again. By the way, a couple of players that I really wanted us to make a play for in free agency last year were Stephon Gilmore and AJ Buoye. Anyone notice what an impact they had on their teams this season and into the post season? But, yay, we signed Coty Sensabaugh.
     
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  16. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    Take a look at the entire body of work of the defense this season. Overall, the defense was a good unit. 7th in the league in PPG. One game shouldn't be the measuring stick. I am not sure why fans simply want to focus on the negatives??

    That being said there is room for improvement for the defense. They need to get better at consistently stopping the run. They need a play maker at the MLB position with Shahzier. They need the OLB they drafted to develop into more consistent play makers. Is VW the long term answer? Will they need to replace one of their safeties? They should be ok at CB as long as they can remain healthy. Burns appeared to have some mental lapses but those can be corrected.

    The Steelers signed Hayden who apparently was a good signing.
     
  17. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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  18. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    I realize that if you look at the stats that we appeared to be a good unit. But did you really feel good about the defense the second half of the season especially? We gave up more big plays than anybody in the league. We made mediocre quarterbacks look like the best of Brady and Brees. We could not get off the field on third down. Mitchell ran his mouth all season but did absolutely nothing to back it up. Not one single defensive player for the Steelers made a play in the Jags palyoff game. People are critical of Tomlin for kicking the onside kick with over 2 minutes left but I'll actually give him a pass there since our defense had not stopped anybody all day long! I'm sorry, but irrespective of what the PPG numbers say, I don't believe our defense was a good unit at the end of the year and into our one playoff game. But our defensive coaching staff remains intact. Go figure.
     
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  19. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin is a byproduct of a great organization and his record is a byproduct of a Hall of Fame QB. Since we know he won't get fired as long as Ben keeps playing at a high level.

    When Ben does retires and Tomlin is still here, then I give Tomlin 2 years before he is fired. I just don't think he has what it takes on a x and o level to overcome an average or below average QB. He cant overcome our deficiencies on defense and he is suppose to be a defensive coach.
     
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  20. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    A team this talent of course will have a winning record. Tomlin has nothing to do with the offense. Big Ben was already established before him and he's the reason the team got to where they got along with the rest of the offensive personell. Tomlin is a defensive guy and since the polamalus, prime Harrison's, Ryan Clark's etc... of the world who were all great before tomlin has been gone his defense in big moments has looked TERRIBLE. Like Bradshaw said he's nothing but a cheerleader. Doug Pederson is already a better coach than him no way in hell tomlin could take foles if Ben went down and adjust and gameplan based on players skillsets. He just runs his scheme instead of what caters to his players skillsets.
     
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  21. DSteelerCT

    DSteelerCT Well-Known Member

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    But, but, but ESPN had them, #2 in their Power Rankings....
     
  22. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Wasnt Cowher then? You can remove the elite QB part because they are the single greatest reason any coach has success. Otherwise you can say the same about Noll, who couldn't win with that cast.
     
  23. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    The difference to me is that Chuck built the dynasty from the ground up. And Cowher's quarterbacks basically were mediocre to average most of his coaching career. I would have liked to have seen what Cowher could have done with a quarterback like Ben for most of his 15 year career.
     
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  24. SteelerfnVA

    SteelerfnVA Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin is a byproduct of the Steelers and Ben. With an avg qb the Steelers are a .500 team at best maybe some yrs of 9-7 but more losing seasons than winning ones. He is along for the ride pulling some strings when his gut tells him to. When Ben does leave it’s going to be rough on Mike with no offense to bail out his great defensive mind. Cause that is really working around here. He can’t even coach his scheme up enough to stop the Browns. So with nothing as a fail safe like the HOF qb he has we will see. Forget chess and checkers hopefully we can play candy land.
     
  25. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

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    Kinda goes hand in hand. Same can be said for most successful coaches. I mean name the last coach who had success without a good qb and a good organization?

    Belicheck, mccarthy, tomlin, payton, they all have at least 1 thing in common andd most have both
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

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