Is Ben an ELITE QB?

You're watching an elite QB, that has already won a bunch, has the #s to prove it, may only now be in the prime of his HOF career, that changed the way the positions is played and has changed the game.

Know it now because you will most certainly know it later.
This book's not finished, we're living chapter, right now.

 

Without a doubt.

 

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/1...sed-the-ball-and-roethlisberger-missed-brown/

The above link is an example from the ratbirds game that I feel Ben is a Great QB but not an "elite" QB.

He made a Great pass to a tightly covered WR that should have caught the ball for a TD. But that WR, your 5th WR on the depth chart was in tight coverage while in Pre-snap your #1 WR AB was being covered by a rookie ILB in the slot.

HELLO!!!!! Pre-snap read says MISMATCH!!! MISMATCH!!! He didn't even look that way, Brown was wide open across the middle because he read it correctly and Ben went with what was called in the huddle. Our redzone #'s are not good and this is one reason why. Check down, hit an open AB and it guarantees a new set of downs and with only a deep safety to beat maybe a TD.

I started to create a different thread for this but its too relevant to this thread so that's why its here, not trying to bump an old thread back to the top.

Cajun-

 

I saw that on there last night. That one really hurt to watch but I'm sure for every qb in the history of the NFL you could point out a play where they missed a wide open receiver.

 

I'm sorry you're bored with this topic/thread that I revived but I thought the link provided was very relevant to the discussion and/or debate at hand. I was reluctant but didn't feel like creating multi threads on the same topic.

Cajun-

 

True, but this isn't about missing an open WR. This is about, as the link clearly shows, our Field General mis-reading a Pre-snap read and not seeing a Clear Mis-match against our best offensive weapon.

Cajun-

edit: Like I've said often, I think Ben is a Great QB, not good but Great. I just hesitate using Elite on him. The NFL probably only has 4 current Elite QBs

 

Problem is it isn't just one play in one game. Since the Vikings game they have run four to five plays with Sanders on a really shallow crossing route, I mean right behind the LB's, typically a good spot to pick apart holes in zone coverage. I think Ben has thrown it his way once out of those 15-18 plays and that time was a late throw that allowed the coverage to get to Sanders before he could really turn up field. Not saying it is the primary route or even who the play is designed to go to but Ben doesn't seem to read the coverage right and doesn't deliver the ball. Someone was critical of Sanders recently saying he was just about worthless but to me the guy has to be getting frustrated. He is running good routes that have him open to convert downs and Ben isn't even looking his way.

 

This.

Ben has consistently done this for years. I would sit in a bar looking at Mendy standing in the flat with a cornerback 10-15 yards away. Ben goes deep for an incomplete pass, or an interception. Mendy would have gotten the first down. You can replace Mendy with any other RB. He's done it to Dwyer and Redman. I won't even start on how he pretty much stopped looking at Ward, in Ward's last season. Ward used to do what you're saying AB did. He'd find the soft spot in the D and get open.

Brady
Brees
Rodgers
P.Manning

Those guys would actually play well behind a crappy line (heck I think some of them have). They would take what the defense was giving them. They would know what the offensive coordinator was providing them. Ben tries to win the game the way he wants to win it, instead of winning with what the game provides. That's the difference between him and the 4 elite QBs. Ben is not elite because those four exist and give an example of what elite is, in this era of football.

Ben is great. Not elite.

And the way the Steelers have always played football, they don't need an elite QB to win an SB. Because they build a solid all-around team, starting with the defense.

 

smh.......

 

I'm not sure where you'd get that from. I don't think anyone is saying that Ben isn't good.

 

TTF- I started this poll and gave reasons why the list was at 5 QBs and trying to stay in the confines of the structure of the poll I did list Eli over Ben. I also further explained that in a response to SBD on the 3rd page of this poll, maybe you missed that. Easier for you to re-read that than for me to re-type it.

Also the reason I smh was you 1st posted Meh ( indifference ) to this thread today then later sarcastically posted How you're convinced at how bad Ben must be- ( you know you don't believe that ) - so yes, I'm a bit confused and smh.


Not sure why you're being so contentious because you know because I've said it many many times I personally believe there are 4 elite NFL QB's, I believe Ben is a Great QB but not yet elite and I only listed Eli above him in a toss up because of his superior performance in big games and 4th QTR comebacks and because the poll required a 5th QB. Its nothing personal against Ben.


Cajun-

 

Cajun - really don't see how Eli could surpass Ben as #5. If you are talking game winning drives Ben has more than Eli per NFL Reference. So I don't see how Eli can really be seen as more clutch than him. In terms of being a winner, Ben has won more games than Eli including more playoff games. Eli does have a better performance in the playoffs 89.3 QB rating to Ben's 83.7, but from a regular season standpoint where there have been a lot more games, Ben is quite superior w/a 92.6 rating against Eli's 81.8. I think Eli gets a lot of nods from folks because of the SB MVPs. One of them was well deserved in the last SB, the other not so much and I think he got it largely because of his last name. People talk of Holmes bailing Ben out...not even close considering how Tyree bailed Manning out. Personally I think it was the Giants DL that deserved that MVP. Also, I think many of us think Ben got jobbed by not getting the MVP against the Cardinals. By the way - I am not bashing Eli, who is a great QB and also a lot of fun to watch, but Ben has been better throughout his career.

I can buy into the "only 4 elite QBs" but if there is a 5th, I am pretty convinced it is Ben. My reasoning for Ben not being elite ANYMORE is the guy just isn't the same winner he used to be and not quite as clutch. I think as little as a couple years back when Ben was elite he was the black sheep of the elite group who did it in a far more unconventional manner where his version of sandlot football was a difference maker. Now that he is a bit older, taken some beatings, and just not able to move or pull Houdini type plays off like he used to, I think he has lost a little bit of his magic. That is why I do not consider him elite anymore - but if I had to pick a 5th guy it would still be him.

 

Look, I get all that and honestly if the Steelers made a trade with the giants- Ben for eli, I would be upset. Like I said, it was a toss up and the ONLY reason I went with eli over ben is because Eli holds the NFL record for most 4th QTR comebacks @ 40 AND he was SB MVP twice. Yes Tyree made an incredible catch but it was Eli who made an equally incredible escape then found tyree and made the pass. That DL maybe should have won the MVP, but they didn't.

Cajun-

 

BF did you look at the link Cajun posted? In this case it isn't an exaggeration. After Brown makes his cut to the middle the nearest DB is between the five yard line and the endzone and he is watching Moye and Webb. Ben hits him instride and Brown has a fair shot at the endzone.

 

It's not a gross exaggeration to point that the Ben lead offense failed to produce a top 5 scoring offense, ever. The bottom line with Ben's play is he never matched the consistency of the best QB's in the league today. As a result, he was never able to help produce a top 5 scoring offense. It is what is and will probably never happen. We just have to hope that the Steelers defense can some how make a leap into the top 5 ppg defenses this season. The Steelers never made the playoffs without a top 5 ppg defense with Ben as the QB.