Is Ben an ELITE QB?

You know what. If you can't handle a different opinion than your own, then you have no business being on a forum to begin with. This is a place where there's going to be a lot of different opinions, some rational, some irrational, if you can't handle that, then quit the internet.

As for the stuff you pointed out, I refuse to give a guy credit just because the team made it to 3 SB's. As many on here said after the Ravens won the SB, the best team isn't always the team that wins the SB. Winning the SB requires a lot of luck. As they say, to be good you need to be lucky. That's why I refuse to simply look at SB's as the measuring stick. If Carson Palmer doesn't get hurt early in that game, do we win? Maybe, maybe not. From a team perspective, it doesn't matter, we won the game and the SB that year, but my point is I'm not going to say player A is better than player B just because one of them has 2 SB rings and one of them doesn't have any SB rings. The same can be said for 2008. If Chris Johnson didn't get hurt the Titans probably beat the Ravens and probably beat us. I still think they were the best team that year. So I'm not about to proclaim Ben as some kind of god because he won 2 SB's. The overall picture is what I look at, and if you actually break down the playoff games through Ben's career, he hasn't played at anything close to an elite level in most of them.

Ben has made numerous important plays when the team needed them, but it's been several years since he has done that. Over the last few years, when the game is on the line, he has turned it over, not scored. That to me doesn't say elite. You want to argue about the past and about 3 SB's, fine, but it has nothing to do with Ben currently being an elite player. If he wants to be known as elite (whatever that even means), then he needs to play like it

 

i agree with this, Jim Kelly doesn't become a better QB if Norwood nails a FG. Tom Brady is not a worse QB if Veneterri misses.

 

Dont know about the smartest but wilbon say here we are the best

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/10/31/DI2008103102485.html

 

To raise a practical question at this point. Are we gonna do Stonehenge?

 

I agree about the best team not always winning. Eli Manning has won 2 and you will never convince me there weren't better teams in the league that year given that the gnats were 10-6 for one of them and 9-7 for the other. I feel like the "best" team rarely wins the championship. I suppose that the SB ultimately comes down to who is the "best" in THAT game. I think that 9ers team last year was vastly more talented than the rats team last year. I also think Jim is a better coach than John but in THAT game it didn't matter. But I guess it also depends on how you conclude what the "best" is. Is it by record or is it by playing your best when you absolutely HAVE to? I can say this though. For that last drive against the Cards in 43 there is not another qb on this planet that I would have wanted under center behind THAT line at THAT moment. I guess that's just me though. But like you said we can all have different opinions.

 

All I know, is I saw something special in Ben, from the time he first took the field.(Way earlier than expected/planned)
I was singing "Pittsburgh`s got a quarterback!!! Pittsburgh`s got a quarterback!!!", after watching him play 2 or 3 games.
Back when I believed all we really needed to become dominant again, was a truly good qb.
And for all he`s done for us over the years, I feel truly blessed that we took a chance on him.
I`m not sure how to define "elite", but, he is a "gamer".
Very competitive, and seems(seemed?) to always find a way to pull a play outta his butt, when we needed it!
His toughness cannot be questioned,(except by those who like to label him a "drama queen") and as was mentioned earlier,
For some reason, he just does NOT get treated the same by the ref`s, as any other qb in the league, when it comes to personal foul calls.
I`m not sure I would label him "elite", but I would say he is in the top 5. (my list is the same as pretty much all the other`s previously posted)
I just hope he isn`t "in the twilight" of his career, as another poster put it, quite yet.
Right now, I am not seeing him play as well as in the past, at least in the "come from behind" department, but I am hopeful, he can get back to that level.
For what he has done in his career for us, I am EXTREMELY thankful, and happy...
I`m just hoping there is more magic left to come...
I`m not sure if I would put him in the hall of fame, if he continues to play, and never comes close to his past success.
If he at least leads the team to the playoffs a couple more times, and God-willing, another ring, or two, then YES!
He`s a lock.
As is, I gotta say it`s borderline. He needs to show that he can still get it done when it matters.
Lateley he hasn`t, and I REALLY don`t want that to be the way I remember him, the end of his career overshadowing all the good he did at the beginning of it.
GO STEELERS!!!

 

On a scale of 1-5 Ben is a 4. A 4 is not Elite. In my book, for "Elite", I'm thinking 4.8-5.0

 

NO, WE'RE NOT GONNA ***** DO STONEHENGE.

 

I voted yes, and i don't really think it is that close of a discussion. I guess Ben is just a "different" type of player than most QB's in the NFL, maybe one of a kind. It also makes him very difficult to rank. My list would be:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Aaron Rodgers
(big gap)
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Andrew Luck
7. Eli Manning
8. Matt Ryan
9. RG3
10. Matt Stafford
11. Colin Kaepernick
12. Joe Flacco

 

I'm OK with putting Ben at number 5, but don't think that automatically defines him as elite. There's a big drop off from 4 to 5, so I voted no. Guess I rejected the definition of elite.

 

It's hard to take Shaners opinion on anything concerning Ben serious when it's clear he some type of personal hatered for him.
At the end of the day the list of accomplishments on the field don't lie, Ben's a great QB.

 

He died... in a bizarre gardening accident...

 

With the way the o-line has blocked for him, I would say that he is clearly elite....games are still won up front, and there's no way that any of the other top tier qb's would've been successful behind our line..... you only have to look at what the bengals did to brady last week for any confirmation..... put peyton behind our o-line and he becomes eli......... when you look at the bigger picture, than I would have to say that ben has been truly elite

 

Why is it that every other organization with a franchise quarterback seems to have enough horse sense to put a decent offensive line in front of him EXCEPT for our organization? Makes absolutely no sense.

I don't disagree that Ben has played behind a bad offensive line for a good portion of his career, but the fact he is not a quick read QB like Peyton, Brady, Brees, etc. and holds onto the ball forever does exacerbate the problem.

 

There's always an element of luck needed to win a SB. That applies to every team, not just the Steelers. As someone else pointed about above, is a QB suddenly better because his kicker made a 50 yard field goal instead of missed it? What about Marino, is he not elite because he doesn't have a ring?

My point is that I look at the bigger picture. The 3 SB appearances matter of course, but not as much as the overall body of work. If I don't think a guy is top 5, the fact that he has 2 SB rings isn't going to suddenly propel him ahead of players who I think are better.

 

It's not hatred at all. I'm simply looking at the numbers. You look at SB wins, I look at the overall body of work. Great, he has helped us get to 3 SB's, as a Steeler fan I absolutely love it, but I'm not going to crown one player, especially when he's played so poorly in a few playoff games that we probably should have lost. Against Arizona he was good and for one drive, he was at the top of his game. Against other teams over the years, he's played just okay most of the time.

That's not emotion or hatred, it's just pure fact. The numbers are there for the world to see. On top of that, over the last few years he's been pretty bad. Yeah, he started out good last year, but playing great for 1/4 of the season means nothing to me. Injuries or not, he needs to play better. I don't remember the last time he marched us down the field and get us a win, do you?

 

SBD-

I like reading your posts regardless of my opinion of those posts. I feel you add to this board and your absence will be missed but in a strange way I agree that you should take a ---Small-- break. Reason being this board can be addictive and can at times consume vast amounts of our ....free... time, this board can be entertaining and make a person feel linked to his extended family. This board can also be therapeutic, at times. During this disastrous period of our season fans a trying to cope the best they can. Look forward to your return though I suspect it won't be long.

I'm gonna address your defense of Ben.

I Love Ben and Love the fact he's our QB. I believe Ben to be a Great QB and quite possibly a future HOFer. None of that makes him an ELITE QB as I've defined it which is subjective I know.

Ben's performance in his 1st SB was the worse performance of a winning SB QB in the history of the game. I will add we never would have gotten there in the 1st place without.

Ben's 2nd SB he made a throw and a GREAT catch by tone is what won that game. But remember Ben over threw him on the other side the play before for a easy TD reception. We never would have been in a position to win if not for a superhuman effort by J. Harrison.

Ben's 3rd SB which we lost during the potentially game winning drive he came up short overthrowing Wallace to end the drive and game. A case can be made Wallace should have made the catch. Fact is an Elite QB throwing a better pass may have gotten us #7.

Let me add I only started this thread,as already mentioned, was to gauge steelernation after reading some debates on Ben vs. Peyton.

I stand by my belief Ben is not Elite. I did list Eli above him for reasons already stated and only because I made the list # 5 is what made Eli Elite, in reality I truly feel currently the NFL may have only 4 Elite QBs but I wanted to give Ben a chance to make the list-homerism I know.

Cajun-

 

I understand, The poll would have been 95% not elite if I made the list @ 4. Besides, who makes a list of top 4? just sounds weird so I reluctantly went with 5. Besides, it did give Ben a chance to make the list of Elite QBs.

Cajun-

 

Yeah eli is elite lol
cmon man

 

Man I always thought Ben was elite...but when you look back at it... he always has had the benefit of a top 5 defense. I just don't know anymore.

 

I just think an elite quarterback is one who elevates the play of everyone else around him. Does Ben do that?

 

I don't think he is and I don't think he ever was. I think Eli and Ben are actually very similar QB's. Have made some very big plays when the team needed them, but also make far too many idiotic plays. Both seem to be falling off.

 

He's had some good regular seasons. 2005 was a good year for him, as was 2009. He's also had some pretty mediocre years. In my eyes, it's unacceptable for an "elite," top 5, HOF, etc. QB to have as many mediocre years as he's had. I also think it's unacceptable to be mediocre in the playoffs as often as he has been.

I think Ben has made many big plays for us over the years and I'm grateful for those 2 SB's, but I think his time is done. I want Ben gone so that we can get a QB who can take us to a SB. We no longer have a top 5 defence and Ben has never shown the ability to take us to the playoffs without a top defence, let alone win another SB. Without a top defence, Ben isn't taking us anywhere.