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Is a tall WR needed?

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by thorn058, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    Lots of talk about drafting a WR that has a different skill set than the ones the Steelers have now. Plenty making the push for a tall receiver who can go up and get those jump balls in endzone and thus improve the redzone offense. However is there a need to use a draft pick on getting that type of player? If all they are looking for a is a situational guy then technically they still have Sweed and Lyons(sp) who have been preseason roster as well as Saunders who is a big target as well. I know there will be at least 50% of response saying Sweed is a head case and Lyon's is undrafted and so on but lets remember what most ppl are talking about is not a guy who will take every snap of every game but more of a 10-15 snap type of player.
     
  2. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    i like wes kemp from mizzou. tall, 6-4 , fast 4.47, smart, and a very good blocker. sometimes used as a lead blocker. i think with saunders here, we could eliminate johnson and have a guy that could fill alot of spots. he could be had in round 6-7. he brings a little bit of all the players mentioned but is a WR. :cool:
     
  3. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    WES KEMP WR, Missouri
    2011 GRADE: 5.5 HT: 6-4 WT: 220
    Overview.Scouting ReportSCHEDULE & STATS.
    0


    A tall, thickly strapped together wide out with the size to create mismatches. However, he isn't a real explosive kid, it takes him a while to build speed off the line, he doesn't eat up the cushion real quickly and isn't a threat to run past defenders. However, he does a nice job changing gears and slow-playing his routes. Will try to run past defenders down the field if they start to sit on his routes and is a tough cover the further down the field he gets. Possesses "plus" ball skills and concentration when asked to go get the football since he consistently extends his arms and uses his length and strong hands in order to make a play. Exhibits a good feel underneath sitting down in zone coverage and working his way back toward the quarterback, limiting the corners' angles toward the football. Showcases a decent combo of power and shiftiness after the catch, can gain half a step, but doesn't have the acceleration to run by anybody.

    Is tighter in the hips and really rolls into his sharply breaking routes. Doesn't create any kind of burst for himself out of his breaks and needs to get his body between the ball and man in order to box out and make a play. Seems to get hung up far too often vs. any kind of press coverage or physicality in the short passing game. Doesn't use his hands well to keep himself clean and lacks the short area quickness to gain a step and separate, even vs. linebackers in zone. Will get after it in the run game, is physical on the edge, displays a willingness to block and is a tough guy to disengage from once he gets his hands on you.

    Impression: Possesses good size and ball skills, but I just don't see him as a dynamic enough option, even at his size, to consistently get open underneath. Looks like a size free agent only.


    [empty]

    [empty]

    . :cool:
     
  4. bigsteelerfaninky

    bigsteelerfaninky Well-Known Member

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    I like
    Alshon Jeffery*, WR, South Carolina
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 233.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.50.
     
  5. SpeedyMikeWallace

    SpeedyMikeWallace Well-Known Member

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    Jeffery's 1st round or early 2nd rounder. They'd be better off addressing bigger needs in the first couple of rounds and then drafting someone like Marvin McNutt in the 3rd. CB, G, DT, and S are bigger concerns.
     
  6. lovembig

    lovembig Well-Known Member

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    the guys they have right now are all fast, but smallish. that is one reason they struggle in the redzone. Miller has size, but he is not fast and thats why we dont see him used like New England and the Saints use their TE's.

    they need to get a guy with some size that can go up and get those fades and jump balls in the endzone. it doesnt have to be a wr, it could be a TE with speed.
     
  7. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    Brandon Barden, TE, Vanderbilt
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 250.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
    Projected Round (2012): 6-7.


    Philip Lutzenkirchen, TE, Auburn
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 250.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
    Projected Round (2012): 4-5.

    Rhett Ellison, TE, USC
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 245.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.72.
    Projected Round (2012): 5-6.

    Jake Stoneburner, TE, Ohio State
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 245.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.71.
    Projected Round (2012): 5-6.

    Josh Chichester
    Sr 6'7" 248
     
  8. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there is a need for a tall WR as long as we can copy the two TE action similar to the Pats with Miller and Saunders.
     
  9. NorvaSteel

    NorvaSteel Member

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    I like Heath....but he'll be 30 next year and I think both of the Pat's TEs average more catches per quarter than the 4 Saunders had all year. It is as much about personnel as it is scheme in that regard.
     
  10. TarheelFlyer

    TarheelFlyer Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to turn this into a BA debate, but there are some issues here that Section531 has pointed out.

    First, let me address the question. Do we need a tall receiver? Not necessarily, but I think we need a physical receiver. Our top 3 are all guys who beat you with speed and shiftiness. I would like to see us add an A. Bolden type. A big physical guy who can work the middle and shield the defender off the ball. A guy who when the other teams CBs are allowed to be hands on, can physically create the space.

    Second, as mentioned, I do think there are scheme issues with where we are offensively. I understand we were 12-4, but IMO only losers are happy with that. We are at home right now and if we want to get back to the Super Bowl, you must find the weaknesses that this 12-4 team had. There were plenty, but I don't think our scheme always takes advantage of our talent. Let me ask this....do we have the talent at WR, QB, RB, and TE to put up an average points per game that would put us into the top 5 offenses in the NFL? Do we have the ability with our skill guys to average another 5-6 points a game? I think we do, but I don't think we will unless we figure out how to get into the endzone as opposed to settling for FGs.

    Let me make my point this way. Our offense scored a TD about 50% of the time in from the Red zone. That places us at about 18th for the NFL. NE, NO, GB were all 59% and higher. NE was at 66%. Here is the thing, you can have a bad offense overall and still score when you get there. The NY Jets scored a TD 65% of the time in the red zone. We were at 50. And before you go into an analysis of saying, well the Jets had a better Oline or something like that, you need to understand that Ben was sacked 40 times this year. Sanchez....39. The Jets had 14 rushing TDs, we had 13. Ben had 21 TD throws, Sanchez had 26. We had one receiver with more than 2 TDs, the Jets had 2 with 8 and one with 5. The Jets, the 25th best offense according to the NFL stats (which using yardage for this number has always amazed me), an offense that any Jet fan would tell you is putrid and awful. That offense outscored us by over 3 points a game on average. We outran them. We outpassed them, but the reality is...the put more points on the board this year than we did. How sad is that?
     
  11. TheSteelHurtin2188

    TheSteelHurtin2188 Well-Known Member

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    I really like saunders he was out if football for a year and made the team and had a great td catch last year as the completely ignored 2nd te in our offense. I would already take him over speath
     
  12. GB_Steel

    GB_Steel Well-Known Member

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    Antonio Brown proved that one doesn't have to be physically large in stature in order to aggressively catch the ball. While an extra couple of inches in height may help in the psyhcological battle vs opposing defenders, and a few extra inches of reach may help in plucking the ball out of the air over the CB's head, it all comes down to talent, desire and confidence.

    We could have a 5'10" Antonio Brown who jumps up and catches the ball at its highest point with his hands, or we could add a few inches to Mike Wallace, make him 6'3", and he'd still try to cradle the ball into his torso rather than be aggressive and go get it with his hands.

    If we target a "big" WR, we need to make sure that he's the right one and has the right mentality, attacking the ball instead of waiting for it to arrive. Otherwise we'll just have a taller and slower Mike Wallace.
     
  13. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    Steve Smith (5'9") > Randy Moss (6'4") at jump balls.

    I totally agree with this. I have wide receiver in my blood, and I'm 5'8" on a good day. Coordination, desire, and timing outweigh height by a hundred pounds.

    I tell my friends all the time that if I'd been covering Larry FitzGerald on that fade route in the Super Bowl, I'd have an interception. That's when they laugh me out of the room, but if you look at it, it's true. Yes, Larry is 6'3" or so and Ike is 6'1", but look how high they are off the ground when he catches it. Only a few inches above the ground, and he caught it at helmet level. I could reach that high without even jumping.

    FitzGerald is one of the best receivers in the game, but I was sick to death of the praise he got during that playoff run. He was considered an unstoppable machine that you could just throw a high ball to and he'd come down with it no matter what, because no one else could get as high as him. And yet, in all those long TDs he had, the defender was usually on the ground by the time the ball actually arrived. You have to be good at it like Steve Smith is. You have to know how and when to attack the ball, and what to do with your body. One would think that in the NFL, they'd all be good at it and so height would be the tie-breaker. That's not the case. Most guys still totally suck.

    By the way, Heath Miller is 6'5" and "good at it" when given the opportunity. I've only seen Saunders (6'7") be given that opportunity once, but he sure didn't let us down.
     
  14. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    not to nitpick but saunders is 6-5 also. but you guys are right about hands catching. " fitz" is an excellent example of concentration and good hands. the thing a big body receiver has is a big body if used properly, can gain an advantadge by sheilding a defender with that big body. a hands receiver is the receiver you want to have add speed and a big body and then you have something. :cool:
     
  15. TarheelFlyer

    TarheelFlyer Well-Known Member

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    I would be all for adding a big body receiver, but at this point I need to wait until the OC situation is resolved. If Arians is gone and we bring in a guy who knows how to use RBs and TEs as receiving threats, it may change my opinion.
     
  16. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    Many great points guys but lets not lose track of the central issue. The team has several big guys on the active roster, IR and practice squad as well as last years camp invitees. Do they need to use a pick on a tall WR for what amounts to a specialty player?
     
  17. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, right you are. The ironic thing? I usually look these things up if I'm not sure, but I was going off of memory of what you said back when you were pimping him last year. I thought I remembered you saying 6'7".
     
  18. TarheelFlyer

    TarheelFlyer Well-Known Member

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    Again, I think this should be up to the new OC. Can he use Saunders and Miller effectively to fill this role? Will he realize that taking your TE off the field at the 5 and going empty backfield doesn't really make sense.
     
  19. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    As long as he throws those quick WR screens when we are inside the 15 and the CBs are in press coverage. And as long as he goes 5 WR empty backfield on downs when we need less than 2 yards. That way we can keep Suisham's field goal percentage up.
     
  20. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    i believe that was the wr from wvu. he was 6-7 almost 6-8. :cool:
     
  21. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    i believe that was the wr from wvu. he was 6-7 almost 6-8. :cool:[/quote:dmwx4twh]
    Ahh, Wes Lyons. I had high hopes for him due to his height (6'8" is what I recall), but he never materialized.
     
  22. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, Wes Lyons. I had high hopes for him due to his height (6'8" is what I recall), but he never materialized.[/quote:9nbc602v]
    He was thrown one ball in preseason, I believe, on his first play in. Beautiful high ball where only he could get it (I think Batch threw it?). Just above the CB's hands, right into his. He dropped it, then got nailed in the head and was given a concussion. I think that's how it went down.
     
  23. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    He was thrown one ball in preseason, I believe, on his first play in. Beautiful high ball where only he could get it (I think Batch threw it?). Just above the CB's hands, right into his. He dropped it, then got nailed in the head and was given a concussion. I think that's how it went down.[/quote:3rh4s1s3]
    the first game of preseason , he had the longest catch of the game by a steeler 38 yds. he also had 1 against philly for 12. just saying i think that's how it went down. :cool:
     
  24. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    He was thrown one ball in preseason, I believe, on his first play in. Beautiful high ball where only he could get it (I think Batch threw it?). Just above the CB's hands, right into his. He dropped it, then got nailed in the head and was given a concussion. I think that's how it went down.[/quote:1qx69g7x]
    the first game of preseason , he had the longest catch of the game by a steeler 38 yds. he also had 1 against philly for 12. just saying i think that's how it went down. :cool:[/quote:1qx69g7x]
    Hmm, I just remembered that I missed two of the preseason games (which KILLED me because I love those -- but I was moving and had no tv). But I did see the Redskins game and don't remember him catching a ball in that one. But I wasn't trying to dump on the guy. I wish him luck and was disappointed when he got hurt, but that was the only play I remember of him. Looking forward to seeing him next preseason.
     
  25. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    the first game of preseason , he had the longest catch of the game by a steeler 38 yds. he also had 1 against philly for 12. just saying i think that's how it went down. :cool:[/quote:g812of1j]
    Hmm, I just remembered that I missed two of the preseason games (which KILLED me because I love those -- but I was moving and had no tv). But I did see the Redskins game and don't remember him catching a ball in that one. But I wasn't trying to dump on the guy. I wish him luck and was disappointed when he got hurt, but that was the only play I remember of him. Looking forward to seeing him next preseason.[/quote:g812of1j]
    how about just plain speed and a diamond in the rough? darrell greens kid from southern. not a tall guy but he could fit in well along the young money lines. :cool:
     

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