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Interesting read (our 4th quarter defense)

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Ray D, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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  2. BLACKnGOLDsince72

    BLACKnGOLDsince72 Well-Known Member

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    That is a good read and you're right we've seen too much of this over the last couple of years now :(
     
  3. SteelinOhio

    SteelinOhio

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    I often talk with friends of mine who are also Steelers fans about the problem of the defense not completing games over the last several years, but this article really puts some perspective on the issue by laying everything out in list format.
     
  4. Roethlisblinger

    Roethlisblinger Member

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    That article goes on forever. I'd argue that only the winningest teams are going to be in position to allow the most 4Q comebacks against them. That's why you see Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New England and Indy at the top of that list.
     
  5. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    Cowher took the air out of the ball once he had a lead. There is something to be said for that. Anyone remember that stat Cowher had? ...if he went into the 4th quarter with a lead he only surrendered it and lost something like twice?

    This current team will go up 14 points and then have three successive 3-and-outs in a row. That is the perfect way to let the other team right back in it. You need to be more consistent and at least get a few first down to take time off the clock.
     
  6. RobVos

    RobVos Well-Known Member

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    There are alot of other things that come into play that this article ignores. One is that teams involved in close games tend to have more 4th quarter comebacks both for and against. The steelers play way too many close games. At the end of games teams get desparate, especially if you allow them to hang around. The best way to prevent a late comeback is to put the team away before it comes to that.

    Over the past several years, the Steeler offense has tended to go into a shell in the second halfs -- it would be interesting to see the number of 3 and outs that occurred prior to a comeback (both ways).

    Rule changes have had an impact -- how many drives at the end of games are extend by the new touch-fouls that get called at a critical juncture.

    A few years back, the Steelers held the Raiders to less than 100 yards TOTAL offense....and lost the game. (That was a killer).
     
  7. cory_86

    cory_86 Well-Known Member

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    to be fair Cowher had an OLine that could run-block and most importantly they had Bettis - Tomlin has nothing comparing to that.

    Yes, there are a lot of issues but I'm not sure Cowher (and Whiz) would be able to run their type of offense at the same level with the guys that are wearing Black & Gold right now
     
  8. rukus4ever

    rukus4ever Well-Known Member

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    Nice article. Thanks for sharing.
     
  9. rukus4ever

    rukus4ever Well-Known Member

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    Bettis, and an above-average offensive line is why he as able to do that. I don't think Cowher could work that strategy with the current lineup.
     
  10. grannieBurgh

    grannieBurgh Well-Known Member

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  11. rukus4ever

    rukus4ever Well-Known Member

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    to be fair Cowher had an OLine that could run-block and most importantly they had Bettis - Tomlin has nothing comparing to that.

    Yes, there are a lot of issues but I'm not sure Cowher (and Whiz) would be able to run their type of offense at the same level with the guys that are wearing Black & Gold right now[/quote:1f4hyylk]


    I replied to his before I saw your reply. Seems we have a similar view of the situation. Actually, if Tomlin and the FO just got a more solid, run-blocking O-Line then this team could pull an air-out-of-the-ball strategy with a 3-piece combo from Mendy, Red and Moore. Even better, the red zone scoring percentage would sky-rocket. This would have a two-fold affect: 1) opening up more options for passing and increasing the number of TDs scored, and 2)creating larger winning margins causing opposing offenses to take more chances, make more mistakes, and score less (increasing Steelers take-aways and preventing opportunities for 4th Qtr comebacks).
     
  12. bigsteelerfaninky

    bigsteelerfaninky Well-Known Member

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    I guess it makes some good points.....having said that no way I trade our defense for anyone else's
     
  13. BK99

    BK99 Well-Known Member

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    That is what kills this team, they try to do just that but the o-line that exists right now is almost totally incapable of run blocking to even get a first down. What happens is we run the ball on first down and either lose yards or gain only 2 and then try again on second down and then get forced into 3rd and long. Not wanting to stop the clock with an incompletion they run again for little or no gain and then punt and after that the other team plays pitch and catch against the stellar secondary and we lose. Against the Ratbirds we tried to throw and it didn't work but we missed a FG, afraid to miss another and leave good field position we punt and have a team backed up and watch as the stellar play of the secondary allows Joe "Montana against the Steelers" Flacco to go 92 yards and win the game and it is all because the offense is lousy and can't give the defense 43 monutes to rest so they are too tired... 2009 was fun to listen to everyone blame the horrible offense for getting a 4th quarter lead and the defense losing it because they were so tired that a 5 yard dump off turned into a 61 yard ramble. I hate when games end like that, it is very painful to watch but it is strange as you can see it coming a mile away.
     
  14. Bleedsteel

    Bleedsteel

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    THIS!!!
    :this!:
    I am a HUGE fan of our defense, and as depressing as it is, to see them blow a lead at the end of the game,
    I can`t help but think about,
    Why do they so often have to protect a one score lead, when our offense has the talent to be up by two or three scores, consistentley, at the end of games?!? :banghead:
     
  15. oldschool

    oldschool Well-Known Member

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    Some astonishing research on that piece. But the best part that I didn't see anyone comment on is a blue hyper link at the very bottom that says "look again". hahahahaha... Great pic! I just wish there was a split screen with harbaugh...
     
  16. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    this team isn't built to go into a shell. they need to keep running they're offense and not waste 1st and 2nd downs by just running into the line. run the offense you have built and keep the other team off the field. this again is bad situational football by our OC and head coach. plain and simple. the same thing we have been moaning about for years here. run the dang offense that got you the lead. :beathorse: :cool:
     
  17. diehardsteel

    diehardsteel Well-Known Member

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    Man that was a tough article to read. So many losses in the last few seconds, and being in the same category as Buffalo is gut wrenching. Whoever on this board said this:
    "There are alot of other things that come into play that this article ignores. One is that teams involved in close games tend to have more 4th quarter comebacks both for and against. The steelers play way too many close games. At the end of games teams get desparate, especially if you allow them to hang around. The best way to prevent a late comeback is to put the team away before it comes to that",

    I totally agree with!!
     
  18. dkblue

    dkblue Well-Known Member

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    One of the most depressing to me was the Raider's game in 2009. Joe Burnett had one right in his hands and dropped it. Gradkowski looked like superman.

    If Burnett makes that catch we go to the playoffs and the Rats sit home.
     
  19. Aerosteel

    Aerosteel Well-Known Member

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    Very intersting article, although a little long-winded. Here's the deal - when opposing offenses spread it out, like at the end of the game when they have to come from behind, our defense gets shredded. Why? Because we don't have the personnel to handle it. We are slow on "D." Our D-line is slow, our linebackers are slow and our secondary (except Ike,) is slow. We hit hard and stuff the run, but we are in trouble anytime a good quarterback goes 4 or 5 wide. We just can't do anything fast enough in that situation. We can't get to the quarterback fast enough and we can't stay with the receivers. I am surprised more teams don't go spread against us from the beginning of the game.
     
  20. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Great article. Sometimes I'd rather be trailing in the final 2 minutes. It seems like we have a better chance with Ben driving for the go ahead score than with our defense trying to prevent the go ahead score (or our offense trying to protect a slim lead). I will give credit where credit is due. The offense closed the game Sunday. They stunk it up on the previous 2 possessions, but they did keep the defense from having to protect the lead inside of 2 minutes.
     
  21. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    I replied to his before I saw your reply. Seems we have a similar view of the situation. Actually, if Tomlin and the FO just got a more solid, run-blocking O-Line then this team could pull an air-out-of-the-ball strategy with a 3-piece combo from Mendy, Red and Moore. Even better, the red zone scoring percentage would sky-rocket. This would have a two-fold affect: 1) opening up more options for passing and increasing the number of TDs scored, and 2)creating larger winning margins causing opposing offenses to take more chances, make more mistakes, and score less (increasing Steelers take-aways and preventing opportunities for 4th Qtr comebacks).[/quote:pkb8hgmo]

    Yes while Cowher had a quality oline and the Bus in my opinion if Tomlin really understood what he had they could run the ball behind the current line and be successful thus giving them more confidence to get after defenses. If you look at this season's games most of Reds and Moores success has come when they simplfied the blocking and went with just basic grab the guy and push downhill run blocking, ripping holes for the back to run through. When they go back to pulling, stunting and the other concepts that zone blocking employs they aren't gifted with the tools to pull it off(except Pouncey).

    To the piont of the article about the defense, i agree with the thought that the offense does nothing to help once a lead is established. It is ridiculous to expect a defense to spend 30 minutes even trying to stop an opposing offense and give the ball back to their own offense to see them squander it on deep incompletions, trick plays, sacks and poorly timed runs. Just because you put up a lead doesn't mean you get to blow your opportunities and then say well the defense should have held them.
     

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