Interesting article gives context to Dupree pick

He may not be all that, but this article shows that it could be worse.

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/10/p...some-context-on-2015-first-round-draft-picks/

 

Barely skimmed through it and I apologize if I'm missing the point. I really have no desire to delve too deep into it. If what I think it's trying to say is that we should be happy because he is the best of the worst. I'm not buying it. He had a disruptive game against Cleve. which many of our guys seem to have but this week is a real test and now I wanna see the big boy pants be put on. Not just Dupree either,that goes for everyone on D.....

 

The general gist I got from the article is that the first round of that draft has proven to be disappointing as a whole, so when people say that Dupree is serviceable but not living up to his first round pick status... he's living up to the particular first round he was drafted in.

Still a shame we didn't move up to get Marcus Peters, mind.

 

Thanks for saving me the time. I thought that was the point they were making. Still not subscribing to that way of thinking. I have some pretty strong and in my mind justifiable feelings about how they have gone about putting the best team around Ben that they could/should have. It's too long winded and I don't have it in me right now but the premise is that I feel in this day and age of the NFL you have to be proactive and not reactive when trying to win a SB. Chances come and go quick and windows shut fast and very similar to the situation in GB even though Ben has been in a couple more SBs. The point is your franchise QB is here now and you should be doing all you can for now. I know being consistent is good for business but I'm afraid we are going to lament all the years from his last SB until he is gone unless we can somehow get 1 more.
IMO we as a organization shoulda/coulda did a better job to increase the odds of that happening. In my eyes not getting back before Ben retires is a failure. I admit I'm spoiled and probably a little irrational but to me sports is about winning championships. Some people's expectations may differ. The chapter hasn't closed just yet so we shall see....

 

Most first rounds have failures. Peters was off the board, but Byron Jones was available. He would be a quality starter for this defense and he is a better player than Dupree.

Dupree is decent, but no more than that. He looked great against Cleveland because the Browns' left tackle is a rookie free agent who has no business starting.

 

I read it. I didn't take it as an argument of who was the best the worst. I thought the point was more about like Thigpen mentioned in that it wasn't a particularly great draft and who would we have realistically wanted instead. It made a decent point.

 

Dupree is 4th-5th round talent.

 

Byron Jones would have been a better choice. I said so at the time and their careers thus far support my point of view.

Jones was a realistic option because he was available. The Steelers chose Dupree instead, which was a mistake.

That it may have been a relatively weak draft is irrelevant. They passed on better players to take Dupree.

 

They have been too passive in fixing the cornerback problem. Rather than move up to get the quality corner they need, they have waited and settled. That is how they ended up with Burns.

They also made bad scouting decisions, such as underestimating Jones and overestimating Dupree.

Imagine what a disaster it would be if Haden hadn't fallen into their laps.

 

If Lake's coaching was part of the problem with DBs, then Byron may not have had the same career up to this point. Even if he did play to the same level, there would still be complaints that the Steelers reached for 2nd round talent (which some draft pundits had him), when the team had a glaring need at OLB. He was a bit of a risk, having an injury that made him miss his last 5 college games, the Senior Bowl, and the 40 run at the combine.

(Not saying those complaints would be valid, but some fans would think the road not taken would have been better.)

"Going into the combine, Bleacher Report NFL draft lead writer Matt Miller didn't have Jones in his top 50 prospects. In fact, Jones only barely cracked Miller's top 25 cornerbacks, at No. 24. With his big frame and aggressive, physical approach, Jones' explosion numbers should make him a lock for the first round. So why isn't he?"

 

I think a major problem with their philosophy on CBs was that the way we used to play the 3-4 and the state of the NFL not too long ago. It used to be ok to have corners that could sit in a zone wait for the pass and close in and make the tackle all at the same time hoping the 3-4 scheme would cause immediate pressure. The problem is the league has changed to more of a passing league with much more complex schemes on offense. Not to mention the dink and dunk approach that is so effective destroys zone coverage. You need to have CBs that are capable of playing man to man and those guys are difficult to get your hands on late in the draft where we are normally picking. A greater emphasis needs to go into scouting CBs you can't just sit back and wait for average to fall in your lap.

 

Many fans don't seem to understand that not all drafts are or were created equal. For example, a players drafted in the 1st round of the 2017 draft might be considered 3rd round prospects in the 2016 draft ect. Teams can only draft the players that are available.

There are fans that want a certain position drafted in the first round simply because it's a position of need. Those positions fans want drafted might not even be better than the players the Steelers have starting now. In any event I've digressed.

I believe the Steelers knew what they were getting in Dupree. A raw, fast, talented, and athletic player who needed some time to develop. I think early injuries set Dupree's development back. He's begging to show what he can do. A little more consistency from Dupree and he will become the player the Steelers envisioned when they drafted him.

 

Many quality corners much like QB's don't turn out to be quality players. So what should the organization give up to move up to draft a quality corner? The reality is that the price is usually to high and there are no guarantees.

Another thing, how do you know that they didn't attempt to move up in the draft?? Again the price might have been to high.

Take a look around the league. Defense with quality corners get exploited every week. Offenses find ways to attack weaknesses in defenses regardless of who's playing CB.

The Steelers ended up with Burns because he is a talented player. Burn's problem seems to be dealing with the mental aspect of the game. There's no way any organization can judge that aspect of a college players game until they see those players perform in the pros.

Burns had his share of good moments. I don't believe the organization is ready to give up on him yet.

 

The shame about Dupree is he's probably the best pound for pound athlete we have. He's a specimen. But he's not a great football player

 

Shoulda woulda coulda...If we pick Jones instead of Dupree, then we probably don't trade for Haden..And we probably don't pick Golson or Grant...That's why I never get caught up in these whats ifs...IF, after the fact ( especially 1st & 2nd rounders ) we say " look at this guy, we could have had him"...Yes, But then that affects your next pick and next pick...And actually years of picks...

So, You can always argue over who we could have taken...But always remember if you play that what if game...It probably changes your whole draft ( at least the top 2 thru 5 rounds ) the last couple rounds...Maybe not so much

 

Teams were able to move up in those drafts. The Steelers simply chose to stand pat and that is why they don't have a cornerback who is good enough to be a starter opposite Haden right now.

Also, they had their shot at one without moving up. They passed on Jones.

 

If they take Jones, the more likely impact is they don't settle for Burns the next season.

 

I used to be in the wine biz, and basically what it is saying is that as vintages go, 2015 was not a great one. In fact, it was pretty damn lousy. Were there better wines made than yours that year? A couple, but not many. And most of those were made with different grapes than you grow anyway (running backs, tackles, defensive ends), so it's not like you can really compare those. Bottom line, if you managed to make a decent wine with that year's crop you are ahead of the game in relation to the other players.

 

I understand the point the article and yourself are trying to make and I disagree with the premise. A player is responsible for his development and success and that isn't dictated by the quality or lack of quality that was present in the draft. AB was a 6th round pick should his success have been limited to where he was drafted and by the talent level of all the WRs drafted around his selection in the draft. I'm not gonna sit here and say we should of drafted this guy or that guy instead. What I'm saying is I don't agree with the idea that Bud being one of the best of the worst is a consolation prize. He has all the tools at his disposal and thus far he hasn't fulfilled his level of potential. There's still time but it's running out....

 

With doing a ton of research on Dupree as he used to be my avatar here, I've come to the conclusion he's an average to good outside linebacker.

He was drafted for his pass rush abilities, which is subpar and why everyone is screaming he's a bust.

The reality is, he's a solid player. He's an average pass rusher. He doesn't flip his hips well and once locked in by the O-lineman he loses the batle (aka he doesn't use his hands well to disengage blocks)

With all that said, he's fairly disciplined on defense. He plays the zone coverage well. He plays the run fairly well although can get beat at times. He has good acceleration off the line and good top speed for a LB (which is a big reason they drafted him.

Is he worth the 9 million a year he's due to earn next year? No

Has been an overall "good" player. In my opinion yes. Not the impact player they wanted with the first round but he plays a functional role. As pointed out, there was not much better alternatives to choose from.

The issue on the defense is not Dupree. They have some serious issues in the secondary that need ironed out. Sure a Kalil Mack would be nice. He is not that, and never will be.

 

Would you still feel that way if he was a third-round pick?

 

It would probably lessen the blow so to speak. The same question could be asked about any player not living up to his draft status. My two biggest issues with Dupree are that I think he is underachieving based on his athletic ability and he's just not physical enough for the position and willing to sacrifice his body. He throttles down a lot and is too often standing around the piles and not in it. Watch him .....to use a train analogy he's a local ,not a express. If he was a technician like say a Von Miller OK but he's clearly not and his pass rush is the weakest part of his game. I think more grit would serve him well.
He had a nice game against Cleve. albeit against a UDFA LT but at least he showed aggressiveness. Let's see if he can stack some good performances together like he should be capable of by now,starting this week.