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If you really want a veteran back-up QB...

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by MeanJoeBlue, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    Your avatar gave me a good laugh.
     
  2. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    I've been alright, thanks for asking. How about you? I 'skim' the board daily, just a lot of back and forth not worth commenting on lately it seems.
    I'll be heading south soon, this weather is too much for me. There was a time when a looked forward to the cold weather because I loved ice fishing. I don't know what I was thinking back then.
     
  3. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    The Dallas game I am referring to was lost by two totally un-necessary penalties on the D leading to touchdowns by Dallas on their last two drives of the game.

    I don't think the failed two point attempt with 9:57 left to go in the first quarter had much to do with it since the Steelers dominated the entire game until those two late penalties allowed Dallas to win.
     
  4. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    It’s all good in da hood! Cold weather....never heard of it, at least not this year so far,not complaining either. Hopefully it continues until a early spring. Where you headed ?
     
  5. Thiefery

    Thiefery Well-Known Member

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    Colbert seems to be missing more and more smh
     
  6. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    Short-sighted, like Tomlin...
     
  7. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    That's not necessarily true.
     
  8. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    Southern North Carolina.
     
  9. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey KnoxVegasSteel.

    I do not want to throw the towel in just yet on Mason. This may be wishful thinking. Just an observation. He played fairly well up until the Browns' game debacle and the little bit that he played the next week in the Bengals' game before he got yanked. Then as you may recall he was benched for several weeks before he re-entered for the Jets' game. In that Jets game, he actually played fairly well until he got hurt in that game which led to him not finishing the season.

    My point is that he played very well in the Jets' game which to me was a good sign. Maybe he needed that time off between the Browns/Bengals games and Jets game to "recollect" himself. On that note, we will never know how well he would have continued to play if he had finished out the season. As I stated, I may be just trying to find any ray of hope regarding our QB situation.

    Even with all that said, at this point in his short professional career, I am not comfortable with Mason being the starter for the first game of the regular season next year. That is unless he has an awesome and I mean super awesome preseason and showcases that which Mr. Rooney "thinks" he has in Mason.


    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  10. Disco1981

    Disco1981 Well-Known Member

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    RM...Rudolph Mason, Kid has loads of potential
     
  11. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    Yes really dumb, like Seattle drafting Wilson and Dallas drafting Prescott in the 4th round. That said how many 1ts and 2nd round qb's drafted in the last few years have not worked out? They had a grade on MR and felt it was a good time to draft him, it looks like a bad move, it might still work out (highly doubtful) but he might prove everyone wrong..at least having a career as a decent bu as he matures.

    As for learning from a pro like Ben, well we know his statements about that.
     
  12. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey Disco1981.

    I still think the jury is out on Mason. Like I said in another post, he started out decent then had that clunker of a game against the Browns and a partial clunker in the one the next week against the Bengals before he was pulled in that game. As you may recall, he sat for a few weeks and then re-entered as the starter against the Jets. He actually played really well in that game until he got hurt and thus his season was over.

    Given that, the time off between the Bengals' and Jets' games may have been exactly what the doctor had ordered for him to "regroup". However, because he got hurt, and did not finish out the season, we do not know how he would have performed in those last few games. I guess I am trying to remain optimistic after what I saw in the Jets game. Nonetheless, it still was to small of a sample size. I am curious to see him in preseason, and hopefully, a lot of him in preseason so we can get a better gage on him.


    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  13. Thiefery

    Thiefery Well-Known Member

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    You're totally correct.. Mason, Dobbs were just like those guys in college. My bad, lets keep drafting QB's in the middle rounds, the odds are in our favor right? LOL
     
  14. Disco1981

    Disco1981 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed my friend... The Steelers had a 1st round grade on the kid, and we're gonna have to see, One way or the other...But the Steelers are just like other teams, they're not without fault...And if they missed on him, they missed...Just like you miss on DE's, OLB's, CB's...Or any other position...

    If that IS the case, yes it will hurt...yes, it might set them back a little but, they'll rebound, have a plan, and come back
     
  15. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    My concern with MR is not how he played in this game or that game. My concern is that he throws "everything" from his back foot, he throws a slow spinning arching ball, and he doesn't seem to be able to see the field.
     
  16. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    I suppose time will tell. So far, it is true. He has done little to backup what Colbert claimed about RM. I'm in the cold day in hell camp when it comes to Rudolph being a franchise QB.
     
  17. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    The QB position is the most difficult to evaluate and draft. Teams seem miss on 1st round QB prospects a high % of the time. That being said it's easy to understand why the Steelers had a first round grade on Mason. Mason showed potential and growth every year in college. He put up big numbers. The Steelers drafted him in the 3rd round so the grade doesn't really matter.
    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mason-rudolph-1.html

    Mason showed growth from his 1st preseason into his 2nd preseason as a pro. How did his injuries, lack of consistent run game, and young WR group impact his play?

    I don't think Mason has shown the potential to be a franchise QB at this point. I don't think the Steelers believe he's reached his potential yet. As you said, we'll see.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying that we should, but to say this year to draft a QB in the 2nd is not really any better than drafting MR in the 3rd. Unless there is someone who slips, that really has some very positive and impressive traits, it still is a crap shoot. This team has 5 draft picks right now, and possibly a 6th if they get a supplemental, there are just to many fundamental positions that they have to address. The draft is not about immediate impact (though you sometimes get that), it is a 2 to 4 year thought process. This year is not a year to savoring a QB, we are not in a position to move up and the other needs are just to great.
     
  19. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    First off, we are talking about Mason Rudolph not the QB position in general, 1st round QBs who have not panned out, or what other teams have done. That is just a red herring.

    Second, numbers and stats in college dont necessarily translate to being a starting QB in the NFL. Just ask Tim Tebow.

    Now to the point about Rudolph. Does he have potential to be a franchise QB in the NFL? Maybe, maybe not. If I knew how to accurately judge that, i would be working for an NFL team. And as we have seen, it isn't easy or possible to get right all the time.

    For me, I haven't seen anything impressive in RMs play, decision making, or physical abilities that would cause me to believe he is capable of being anything more than an average backup QB in the NFL. And, if you watch videos of him at OSU, he showed the same deficiencies that we saw since he's been in Pitt. A second behind on throws, accuracy issues, not mobile, not decisive. Could he fix these issues with effort and good coaching? Maybe, maybe not. I lean toward the not.
     
  20. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    Yeah and the QB position is the most difficult to evaluate and draft. At the end of the day he was drafted in the 3rd round regardless of what the Steelers said. I gave reasons why the Steelers stated they had a 1st round grade on him.

    I realize numbers and collegiate play don't always translate to the NFL.

    Mason did some good things last season. He showed some potential. It's easy to lean towards the not side when the vast majorities of QBs fail anyway. The Steelers are going to give him the opportunity to continue with his development.

    I think the Steeelers should bring in a vet back up with experience if possible.
     
  21. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    I think we will know soon next year. His deficiency's were pretty obvious, and if he comes back again with the same deficiency's and not move his feet in the pocket in the first couple of games, you can just forget him.
     
  22. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    You're right about the difficulty in drafting QB's. My concern is that we used the 76th pick on him when we had glaring needs on defense at a time when you could contend that it was now or never. My direct concerns with Rudolph are that he had serious fundamental flaws in college........and......... there is zero indication that he is fixing those flaws after two full seasons in the NFL. I understand that his body of work in NFL games is small but he is at practice every day and if he has big potential but a few key flaws, why are we not seeing those flaws chipped away at?
     
  23. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    The Steelers and every team in the league are always going to have glaring needs. Teams simply can't have it all at every position.

    There is probably less than a 50% chance that a 3rd round pick is going to correct a glaring need.

    Nothing wrong with taking a QB that they believed could have a future in the NFL. Unfortunately, they had to play Mason before he was ready due to the injury to Ben. To compound the issue they didn't have any consistency from the RB position, young WR group, and little money as a result of having a lot of money tied up in AB and Ben. The Moncreif deal also didn't pan out as expected. The offense had almost a perfect storm of everything that could go wrong went wrong.

    I think he is working to correct some of his issues. He showed growth and played much better in preseason in 2019 than he did in 2018. Having a new coach on board might be able to help Mason correct some of his issues.
     
  24. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I understand the criticisms and disappointment in what we saw out of MR. Tell me what other QB would of thrived under the same set of circumstances? Was his OC/QB coach properly preparing him in both roles? Who knows if his growth and development have been stunted by his coaching. We’ve seen very recently QBs going from nobody’s to somebody’s and even back to nobody’s when in a beneficial or detrimental situation ( system). How much different do we feel about MR if Conner and JUJU don’t fumble? Or if Moncrete could catch? All the other issues have been thoroughly discussed already. Who would thrive in that?

    Brady looked very pedestrian this year. Is it because he’s washed up or because he had a revolving door on the OL and WR and haven’t replaced Gronk? Is there any doubt that with improved OL play, a better running game which they had the year before and another offensive weapon, they’re not back in the thick of things (with Brady)? My point is MR went to hell in a hand basket last season. It’s too early to write him off. As it stands now I’m comfortable with MR backing up Ben. Ohhhh Canada....please save us...
     
  25. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey Stone.

    Yes, I have heard the same criticisms quite a bit on the board. I am not totally up to date but did we hire a QB? If we did maybe he helps correct some of Mason's Mechanics. I really think we have good skill-position players in place on the "O". One of the big problems was they were constantly hurt taking turns. As far as the TEs they just went invisible for what reason I do not know. McDonald and Vannett are a good duo. The O-Line jus needs to "regroup" and get their collective heads out of the sand. So, what is left? The QB. I do not know how Ben will return. Mr. Rooney went on record stating that he is comfortable with our QB situation entering next season. I do not know how he could make such a comment for two reasons:

    • We do not know what Post-Injury Ben is going to be like. It is too early to count on him returning or at least to Pre-Injury form.
    • Mason and Duck (IMO Duck should not even be in the conversation) have not proven themselves, up to this point, as quality starters.
    I hold my ground and am still advocating to go after Andy Dalton. He may be the only quality QB out there to take a back-up job in Ben is okay. If Ben is not Okay, then he is our starter. I think Dalton has proven himself to be a quality QB.


    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     

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