Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by mytake, May 19, 2020.
That doesn't fit my narrative.
Also the offense messed up in 2017 vs New England near the goal line, IIRC there was problems about getting the play called, I think Ben ended up throwing a int.
I think the defense was pissing more games away than Haley.
There were multiple 'Haley moments' in that game.
What I felt back then was they couldn't win with the combination of Tomlin, Haley and Butler. At least one of them had to go. I wasn't upset when Haley turned out to be the one, but I figured they would replace him with someone qualified, or at least with experience at OC.
Don't forget Ben, he had his share as well.
When you hang 42 on one of the best defenses in the league in the playoffs you aren't the problem. It gets back to my original post. It was all politics and appeasing Ben. That's why they went with somebody way less qualified. Ben is better with somebody calling him out on his **** than a friend.
New England in 2017 game ending int, Denver 2018 end of game int in the endzone, the 2 turnovers early against Jacksonville in the playoffs 2017
Ok, please proceed
That was a circumstantial 42 points, including 3 if not 4 of the greatest, most clutch TD receptions you'll ever see, with 2 of them coming on 4th down. Basically Hail Mary's. Jacksonville's coverage was there every time.
If Tomlin, Haley and Butler were all let go after that game I wouldn't have had a problem with it.
That is the live and die with Ben argument. Anytime you want to talk about theses games and I'd add the SB vs Green Bay in there as well you will always get the supporters who won't be critical of Ben throwing 40 yards downfield into triple coverage when the 4 yards needed for 1st down is open, who undoubtedly will say that is just how Ben plays, you take the good with the bad. However you can never make them see that if the guy would just make the short play he could have written his own ticket to the HOF and been considered one of the all time best.
If he had the work ethic of Brady, with his god given physical ability, we would be talking about Ben being the GOAT and not Brady. But Brady has the ethic and mental capacity.
How is he say less qualified? He was the wr coach here and then became bens qb coach for years. Sure they are familiar. Ben listens more to him or BA when he was here then to ken Anderson or haley. Haley and Ben clashed from day one. Remember by the end of season one Ben was calling signals from BAs playbook in the games. After that first season he and Haley sat down and they dismantled haleys playbook to what Ben liked to run. It was well documented. The only thing Haley really changed was Ben not holding the ball. Haley got credit for that but fichtners worked with him to change it.
fichtner has experience. He is also trusted by ben. Ben threw for over 5,000 yards fichtners first year. The red zone scoring and efficiency increased under him. Conner put up good numbers. He took a Memphis team and put them in national contention the years he was there. He gets grief for last year because of two not ready for primetime qbs. They still ended up one game from the playoffs on a decimated offensive team.
Fichtner lost a franchise qb. A league leading wr. His starting rb. His number two wr. His TE, which admittedly played one of his worst seasons. An offensive line that played poorly. Two other young wrs and rb, plus wrs and a TE that weren't even on the team to start the season.
He had two first round picks on the whole offense. One of which snapped the ball all over the place, which made it very hard on an inexperienced qb. How can any qb read the defense when you have to watch the snap and God knows where it is going on each play. DD the other first rounder played with an injured knee most of the year, which he had surgery on when the season ended. The other offensive guard had a terrible season as well and was forced to retire after the season. Don't think he wasn't either.
Let's not forget he also lost the best offensive line coach and an extremely good wr coach during last season.
That is one hell of a lot for anybody to contend with. There isn't an OC alive that could have worked with all that and made it successful. Yet fichtner damn near pulled it off. We played toe to toe with every team we faced. We didn't get blown out of the water in any game. We had leads in plenty of games. It wasn't all the defense putting up points. That defense had 9-10 first round players that were healthy. Fichtner didn't have anywhere near that talent to work with.
He has plenty of experience to lead this offense. You all need to Thank your stars we had him and did what we did last year. Not many if any coach could have held it together through that mess.
Wasn't much toe to toe up in Foxborough mac daddyo. Not blaming Fichtner for that one, I blame Tomlin.
I didn't see it that way. I'm not sure what Fichtner held together exactly. Reviving the failed 'wildcat' maybe, only to have it cost them games. I saw a Mike Tomlin signature 8-8 season that relied mostly on a defensive turnover rate that they'll probably never produce again.
I pointed out in another thread that the Bengals lost 8 games last season by one score or less, and they were in most of them in the 4th quarter. Toe to toe or close losses don't mean much. Those games are usually won by the better coached team.
Imo the Bengals of 2019 is a bad example. It would be hard to convince me that they weren't tanking for a top draft pick.
I suppose you could use that argument for any bottom-tier team, but there are plenty of other examples.
Maybe. But that FO has been a joke for a long time, crappy ownership, unproven HC. We have seen first hand, what happens to a squad that has SB talent with a sh!tty head coach. 8-8 and watching postseason from the couch.
we've not had much success there ever. Especially a mt team in game one anywhere.
he held this team to an 8-8 one game from the playoffs with all the things I listed going against them and him. Name me any other OC that would have made last year's team viable with that much going against it. No team had anything going against it like we did last year. None. Losing the franchise qb was just the tip of the iceberg.
We have no idea what success any other OC would have had. An OC who didn't use the wildcat vs the Ravens or Bills (or at all) might have won those games and made the playoffs.
They might not lead the lead in defensive turnovers in 2020, but they should still be good if they get 25-30 turnovers. Also with Ben back the offense the offense won't struggle to score 10 point a game like they did in 2019, the defense should be fresher for not having to play as many snaps as they did last year.