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I knew our rush D was bad (sans Shazier)....

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Watt Wack, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Please, just stop. Those are backups. Spence started four games because they lost their starter and their top backup. They are most likely going to start the same guys as last year at nine positions. They are also returning their top backups at defensive end, inside linebacker, outside linebacker and their top two reserves at cornerback. (Gay only got that much playing time due to Sutton's early-season injury.)

    Burnett should help, but only if he can stay healthy and that has been a problem for him. Bostic is an upgrade over Spence, but a downgrade from Shazier. They gave themselves better options off the bench at safety and maybe nose tackle, but overall it is very much the same defense.
     
  2. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    Exactly what was said of LeBeau.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    No you stop. Just as you said the top backups like matakevich are healthy. Adams will be a new option at OLB, tuitt and Hargreaves are healthy. Sutton is healthy. Hadens broken leg should be in better shape than it was when he was rushed back. We have far better depth in they're second year than they're first all over the corner spots. We can't do anything about injuries. Same with any team. You hope your guys can play every game. So yes bostic and Burnett are upgrades until they aren't anymore. No we can't replace shazier but we knew that and nobody out there was going to. Add our new players to the depth with better coaches and it is a different defense than last year. Just because you have Burnett being hurt already makes no sense until it happens. Maybe it will maybe it won't. Guys are healthy right now and with better coaching on the front end and back end and it is quite different than last year and that's my point. I win, you are wrong deal with it. I know that's hard for you scribe. I showed you the facts that many guys started games that you like to dismiss and you like to twist things around to favor your point, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a different defense than last year.:cool:
     
  4. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Dominant Nose Tackles must have some sort of special spring sale going on.


    We really should pick one up while supplies last!
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  5. BK99

    BK99 Well-Known Member

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    Butler is almost a mirror image of LeBeau and in case you forgot, LeBeau had the same issues. The biggest issue with LeBeau was "keeping the play in front of the player", with that scheme we saw the CBs and safteties play 15 yards off the ball on 3rd and 4 which is just one reason it was time to go.

    In defense of LeBeau, the game changed in how defense was played so physical type CBs and DBs in general were neutered in ability. The team never got the concept and they never really were able to find a true cover corner or even come close but t was due to scouting and coaching philosophy.

    How many games did we watch and scream at the T.V. during LeBeau's last two seasons when we watched teams march downfield with the dink and dunk and the team couldn't stop it? Then only to watch the opening of the second half and see the same thing and watch it continue for the entire game, this still happens.

    I can watch a game and predict the outcome after watching the first quarter play, last season was the first time I was wrong more than twice. That statement isn't about my power of perception or game knowledge, it is about the lack of a plan B when the original game plan, if they even have one under Tomlin.

    Criticizing Butler and saying we lost the ability to make in-game adjustments with Lebeau is like saying You hate Fox news because it is biased but you love MSNBC, both are the same but are on different sides of the political spectrum. LeBeau's defense lacked in-game adjustments just like Butler's defense, nothing different.

    BTW, the Tebow playoff loss was due to the fact the run defense was pretty bad that season if you remember. They used man coverage and put 9 guys in the box every single play, they sold out completely against the run in order to stop it. Tebow only completed 10 passes that game but for 316 yards, that is 31.6 yards per completion which shows that there was no safety help and that was because it was Tebow and they had to sell out against the run in order to stop it.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    People who said LeBeau couldn't make adjustments didn't know what they were talking about.
     
  7. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    That you think those two are the same shows you really don't remember what LeBeau was capable of as a coach.
     
  8. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    Up until his last few years in Pgh, yes. But at that point, he started to falter and rely too heavily on his best buddy players, even if they were not playing up to par (Polamalu for example). DL deserved all his praise up until then, but he was a mere shadow of himself towards the end.
     
  9. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Troy was what lebeau was given. He started this hybrid defense too that we are trying to perfect. DL also said a few years earlier that we needed CBs that could play better man coverage as well as zone, they didn't deliver them to him. If you look at what he has done in Tenn. it shows his ability to change. Hid defense played more mancoverage than any team in the league. He was criticized here for playing too much zone blitz, when in fact he asked for better man players years before. So who's fault is that?:cool:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. shadowmaker

    shadowmaker Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Peezy is there but who is he pumping it into? If he had 1 guy that was as passionate as he was/is.... Was Shazier that guy? I dont know.

    Colbert, Tomlin, the Rooneys, whoever. Where is our nasty LBer? Porter was cut and there was a guy ready to go. We havent had LBers ready to go in 4-5 seasons.

    I wouldnt consider Shazier nasty. I guess maybe Im misusing the word or wrong word. Where is the guy that instills fear into other teams? The smack talker, the guy who makes the hard hits. Lambert, Lloyd, Greene, Porter, Harrison. (IMO Ham and Russell were better than Lambert but Lambert was just 'nasty' and together it was beautiful.) Porter was the smack talker the bad boy....heck he went up on the Ratbirds bus. LOL Unfortunately, I missed the Lloyd years. I discovered women during that time.

    Woodley was awesome until he got paid, then he got fat and lazy. Timmons was just solid and did his job.

    Where are our 3 LBers? Why are we struggling to find them? My point is, I ve been a fan for 40+yrs and the Steelers are known for LBers, until recent. They are finding WRs now like they use to find LBers.
     
  11. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    The guy that instills fear into other teams has already been fined and suspended for life. Goodell's hate has no limits! Hahahahahahahahaha
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  12. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    Whether he couldn't or simply wouldn't has been dissected here for many a moon.

    Arguements were the game passed him up, or he didn't have the horses, or he was too loyal to long tooths, or he was simply too stubborn. Either way you lean on it, the results are and always will be the same.

    Butler spent a long time as his understudy and has produced similar results to Dick's long walk to Tennessee and he's supposedly in the still cutting his teeth stage of it all. We've all already said the same rehashed **** in reaction to Butler because it's a carbon copy of what we had at the end of Dick's tenure here. Visible results that are similar and yield every excuse merit as was done before.

    I personally wanted to go a different direction (not in house) as I already knew what was coming. More of the same mixed in with more of the same excuses. The 3-4 and all of the heroic LBers that made it great is almost completely dead. Things change and that's just life.

    Hopefully with some of the new coaches there will be a culture change in the positive. Hopefully the hybrid experiment clicks or they just get a little more proactive in the creativity of things and yes ADJUST!

    I know what I'm talking about in regards to what you said and In all honesty DL's time was up...
    Butlers SHOULD be too if the D does not turn a corner soon because it's a few years later and more of the same and that's the reality of it.
     
  13. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    People like to talk about DL and not playing new players but the fact is butler was worse at not thinking guys were ready to go. They finally made him start using new players sooner when we had to start limiting years we could sign draft picks. That was as LB coach too. I never liked the way the butler thing went down. I really don't think he is or was ready for this job.

    DL used the zone blitz. Butler was taught the zone blitz. Lake played and coached the zone blitz. Porter played and coached the zone blitz. Mitchell coached the zone blitz. Olsavsky played and coached the zone blitz. Now we expect to teach and run a foreign defense and expect our players to communicate this well? It's like a Spanish teacher teaching French and wondering why the students don't pick it up.

    Just reading how different things are and how much the players are grasping and how they are raving about what is being taught compared to the old coaches speaks volumes. I talked about this for several years and got shot down on this site about coaching changes on defense. We will see far better play from the DL and DBs this year because of the coaching change. I don't think it should be done yet either with just those two if we expect better play from the whole unit. I know what our good coaching did to our offense. The experience difference in coaches is huge on that side of the ball. It was way overdue in coming and shouldn't be over on the defensive side either. Not if we expect different overall results.this:cool:
     
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