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How is this acceptable? Bell admits they overlooked teams.

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Watt Wack, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    You really believe teams only 3 players to win games in the playoffs? Wow.

    i guess the Steelers should get a pass for not being able to win vs Denver in 2015 (no Bell and Brown). In 2016 no Bell for 3 qts vs the Pats.

    i think it takes more than 3 players to win games. I also believe that turnovers were key factors in each playoff loss the past 3 years. Difficult to win shooting yourself in the foot.
     
  2. 58stillers

    58stillers Well-Known Member

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    Aside from bell's words, I'm still trying to figure out how it's acceptable that Leonard Fournette scored more rushing TD's in Heinz Field (in two games) than Bell did all season at home.
     
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  3. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is acceptable.
     
  4. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Let's add a very good O-Line and one of if not the best WR draft picks and one of the best FBs to the mix. There is a ton of fire power on this team. A very very good kicker. A good D-Line. Good position coaches. So it's much much more than 3 good players. You guys know it is, so quit playing the game. This team is loaded. Why can't they win playoff games? Most teams would be thrilled with half of what we got.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
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  5. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    Well you said 3 players right?

    Turnovers were an issue in probably all of the playoff losses. The inability to stop the Jags run game even though they knew it was coming was an issue. The Steelers had weaknesses.

    The same credit you want to give the Steelers should be given to the Jags too. That team was loaded with enough talent to compete with a team like the Steelers. People need to realize that other teams are just as loaded as the Steelers. The other teams couldn't compete if they didn't have the talent.
     
  6. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    It’s very telling that you skipped over our linebackers. As you know it takes a complete team and we were not a complete team.
     
  7. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Not much we could do about an injury like shazier suffered and the injury to matakevich in the same game. The eagles lost a franchise QB and won a SB, so it can be done.:cool:
     
  8. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    There’s always someone to blame lol
     
  9. Jares

    Jares Member

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    There is just no way to say the Jags should have beaten us at home twice, especially with one of them a playoff game where we should be playing our best. The Jags came in and beat us twice with a glorified, rural high school style passing game which where I come from is run, run, run, punt. If you can gloss over the fact that Blake Bortles torched our defense in a playoff game, you are definitely more patient than I cam.

    It seems perfectly clear to me that the Steelers in general overlooked teams. How else can you explain consistent losing to poor teams? Either our defense is the worst in recent memory which means our DC should have been fired, or they overlooked teams. Bell isn't the only guy talking about it. It was mentioned after the Jags playoff loss. Heck Tomlin himself was talking about playing the Pats before the Jax game was even played. The shift in attitude of the players since Tomlin took over is stark. Gone are the days of the 60-minute men. We consistently get 30 mins of good football per game and with our talent level that got us 13 wins last year. If not for Boswell we might have been 9-7. It has to change.
     
  10. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    If there were not ways for the Jags to defeat the Steelers then why did it happen? The Jags were a better head to head team than the Steelers. Accept it because they proved it.

    Bortles passed for 214 yards on 14/26, 1 TD. That's not exactly what I would call torched. What Bortles did was make plays with his arm and legs when the Jags needed plays. The Steelers inability to stop the Jags run game is what hurt the defense the most. Jags rushed for 4 TD's.

    The offense gave the ball away twice and that certainly didn't help the defense. One TO was for a quick 6. Can't be -2 in turnovers and expect to win the game. So there was the basic blue print of how the Jags defeated the Steelers twice. Pay attention in the future because if the Steelers are -2 in turnovers vs any team than the Steelers will probably lose.

    You shouldn't simply buy into what people say. People tend to forget the facts. For example, Ben didn't play well early last season. The defense carried the team until Ben played better.

    Break down each game on it's own and you might find out why the Steelers loss. The Steelers loss to the Bears because Ben didn't play well, they loss the turnover battle, and because they couldn't stop the Bears run game. Kind of similar to how the Jags defeated the Steelers. I suspect that in several of the losses to "lesser teams" that Ben didn't play well.

    I don't view teams as lesser. I know that all teams have the talent to compete and beat any team. Especially if the better team on paper shoots itself in the foot with turnovers, penalties, or other mistakes. It's strange that fans don't realize that fact after years of watching upsets and the games in general. The league is a more balanced from a talent perspective than ever before.
     
  11. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Well I guess we ought to fire Ben for not stopping the run whether it's early in the season or late in the season.

    There was a problem and it persisted all year. Just like the year before with the we can't play man to man so we will play zone. These problems last all year and are never adjusted to.

    Didn't Ben also bring us back in both those games only for the defense to have the same problem? We couldn't make 1 stop.

    The eagles lost a franchise QB and won the SB. The patriots won the SB the year before after loosing all of their inside linebackers to injury during the season. It can be done if you prepare.:cool:
     
  12. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you have to go to those extremes Mac but Ben can change the complexion of a game by just managing it better. I mean look at that Chicago game. They are marching don field towards a potential score and the drive stalls out. Chicago forces a key turnover and if not for a great individual effort by Mac they score. If you put seven points on the board there it takes the Bears out of their game plan and forces the pass more than the run. It lessens the vulnerability of the run defense and balances things out.
     
  13. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    They won the Super Bowl with a back up quarterback. That much is true;however, Foles was a solid starter before Wentz came into the picture. It’s not as if Ben went down and Dobbs won it all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  14. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    Nah no need to fire Ben. Some people called for him to be replaced last season. He needs take care of the ball. Especially in the playoffs.

    Whether you can recognize the adjustments or not the coaches make adjustments.

    Sometimes they need to do what they believe gives the team the best chance to win. The defense had good games stopping the run. They need to be more consistent. Overall I don't think the defense was bad as some believe. The stats back that up.
    Some fans called for Ben to be benched because of his inconsistent play. I never agreed with that. Ben just needs to take care of the football.

    The problem thing isnt 100% accurate. There were games the defense played good run defense. Sometimes the coaches do what they feel us best in terms of scheme. Should the coaches simply play man coverage when they dont have the players neccessary to be successful? Imo its better to make an offensive team earn a score than to give up a big play playing man to man coverage. I realize it isnt that simple but you should get the idea.

    How can coaches at the highest level never adjust? I doubt you even believe that yourself.

    I believe the defense made 2 stops in the 2nd half. In any event turnovers kill teams chances to win games regardless of when they happen. Imo those turnovers were the difference in the out come of the game. Turnovers usually are.

    Teams can overcome injuries, poor defense offense, ect. Its difficult for teams to overcome -2 in the turnover category.

    The Jags defense manage to perform as poorly as the Steelers defense. So what was the main difference in the teams? Turnovers
     
  15. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    You make some good points and the theme seems to be that we consistenly overlook teams. But do we really overlook teams OR do we simply not know how best to prepare the team to play the next team on the schedule, to take advantage of their weaknesses, to shore up our deficiencies against their strengths and so forth? Butler doesn't strike me as the brightest bulb in the chandelier and Tomlin is definitely not a strategist by any stretch. By his own admission he's a "fundamentalist as opposed to scheme". I think it's preparation more so than looking past teams.
     
  16. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    I think Bell and Ben are very similar.Both have great talent , but neither seem to have that killer edge to will themselves to better play in big games . Bell has that me attitude as such he can't and never will sacrifice himself for the Team. IMO that lack of Heart and dedication to the Team is exactly why we keep coming up short.
     
  17. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    Come on man. Ben played with a sense of urgency vs the Jags and made some big time throws. Ben just needs to make better decisions at times and limit the mistakes. Turnovers can be team killers.

    It's a business for these players. Bell wants to make as much money as he possibly can. He has a right to be selfish in that regard. It's his body on the line. I don't see anything wrong with that.
     
  18. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    RIGHT ON. We went from "60 minute men" to "a one point win is beautiful." Kind of a different mindset, and it shows. But Tomlin is too slow to get it: Always preaching how a one point win is beautiful sets the team up to underperform. I get his point, but it's a poor focus to have.
     
  19. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me, how many games has Ben won for us in the final 1-2 minutes (or 30 seconds)?
     
  20. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    You have a valid point. I think it's an overall attitude, plus a weak array of strategy and CERTAINLY a massive weakness in adjusting during a game. As a matter of fact, they are so poor at it, that they don't even bother to make adjustments, as far as I can see.
     
  21. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    Exactly Ben should make better decisions and less mistakes. IMO most of these things are handled preparing for the game which it seems Ben is not ready a lot of the time to start a game .

    As to Bell he knows holding out is not going to get him the money .So missing training time and Team time hurts the Team . I don't think this Team can win it all with Bell on it.
     
  22. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    60 minute men was 1990's. Thats over 20 years ago. Talk about being out of touch.
     
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  23. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how well Ben does or does not prepare. I assume Ben prepared based on the amount of success he's had. Maybe it takes a minute for him to adjust to what the defense presents?

    Holding out will help to keep Bell from being injured in training camp. Why should Bell risk being injured in camp without a long term deal in place? Football is a big business for the owners and players. It would be a bad business decision for Bell to attend camp without a long term deal. Once business is handled then everything will fall into place.
     
  24. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    I typically agree with your posts, but why is Bell any different than any other player in the last year of their deal or a one year deal? IMO that argument is bogus. At some point most players are faced with being on a one year deal. Everyone can’t be on multi year deals all the time.
     
  25. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    Not really wanting to bash on Ben ,but I don't think he is a true student of the game .As far as Bell goes he doesn't have to take the physical reps , but he should be there for the mental reps . His Mates know he is not getting a long term deal so him not putting in the work hurts the overall mental toughness of the Team .

    If he had any chance of getting a deal then okay, but he has turned down deals that are more than fair .Bell is not a Team player even his mate AB wants him with the Team.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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