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How do YOU Grade the Steelers Draft and Why?.. Poll

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by mcam, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. A

    7.0%
  2. A-

    15.1%
  3. B+

    16.3%
  4. B

    24.4%
  5. B-

    17.4%
  6. C+

    5.8%
  7. C

    9.3%
  8. C-

    2.3%
  9. D

    2.3%
  10. F

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    We're not in your english class professor. This is a message board where the time people have to fire off a post may be limited or maybe doing it from their phone. My position was already well stated and you knew that. The only thing you accomplished was wasting TTF's bandwidth. ;)

    The trade chart doesn't account for moving into the top 10 where the real estate is much more valuable. Also, I don't really think the trade chart means as much to GM's as it does as a guide for fans. A GM isn't going to back out of a trade because he consulted the trade chart and thinks damn, chart says I am giving up too much but I really feel like this player can turn my team around, oh well, can't do it.

    Steelers didn't trade into the top 10 to get a good player, they traded into the top 10 to get a generational player and if Bush should meet those expectations and all it cost was a 2nd and 3rd rd, it's a steel, IMO. They accomplished it without giving up next years 1st, which if Colbert was the incompetent dolt some make him out to be, he definitely would have gotten fleeced for. As it is, he stands to recoup the 3rd next year for Bell which makes the deal even better. Im sure KC took that into consideration as well.
     
  2. KMM

    KMM Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Of course it accounts for that. It's not a linear scale. That's why the difference between pick 9 and 10 is 50 pts while 19 and 20 is 25 points. The first pick is worth 3000 pts, pick 11 is worth 1200 pts, 21 is worth 800, and 31 is worth 600 pts. So it most certainly values moving up 10 spots into the 10th spot more than moving up 10 spots into the 20th spot. In fact, the draft value chart values it more than twice as much since moving up 10 spots to the 10th pick is +450 pts vs. +210 for moving up 10 spots from 30th to 20th.

    And GM's use the draft value chart or their own custom version of it all the time. I mean, you do know the history of it, don't you? It was invented by Jimmy Johnson as a tool to be able to guide him in draft trades. It was very quickly picked up by every franchise in the league. And yeah, a GM isn't going to back out of a deal the chart says is lopsided, because they'll never make that deal in the first place if it really looks lopsided. It has to be reasonable.

    Also, Bush is a "generational" player? He was taken 10th, for pete's sake! Not even first at his position. Are you saying there were 9 better "generational" players in this draft and two at one position?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  3. KMM

    KMM Well-Known Member

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    BTW, here's an article on the draft value chart where Belichik says everyone basically uses the same chart and that all deals are within 5 to 10 percent of the chart values. He does say the first round is a "little different" which is exactly what I said regarding the Steelers deal. They "overpaid" a bit (not a lot, just a little), but that's it.

    Like I said, lopsided deals just don't get made in the NFL anymore.

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...lichick-every-team-uses-the-same-draft-chart/
     
  4. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 24, 2011

    For kicks, I used the draft search finder on profootball-reference and looked at the #10 overall pick over the last 40 years. There are some great ones Woodson, Bettis, Terrel Suggs, Marcus Allen. But a lot of so-so guys too, like Tyson ALualu. Only 18 of the 40, made the ProBowl even once. So more than half never had a ProBowl season. If that happens to Devin Bush, he will be considered a dissapointment , if not a bust.

    Everybody is a HOFer on draft day, but there are no sure things.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 24, 2011

    You need to account for the fact that 3rd round is next yr, not this year. To account for the 'net present Value', it is assumed that a 2nd round pick next year is equivalent to a 3rd rounder now, a 3rd next year equals a 4th rounder now, etc.

    So based on that:

    Value of #10 : 1300 pts

    Value given up by Pitt: #20 this year (850), #52 this year (380) , 2020 3rd = 2019 4th (65 )
    Total: 850+380+65 = 1295.

    So this trade was pretty much exactly in line with how the trade chart sees it. Fr what it's worth.
     
  6. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I'm talking about negotiating from a position of power. Teams don't try and trade into the top 10 unless there is a player they have to have. From a negotiating standpoint, you can put the screws to the team trying to trade up.

    Put it this way, would you rather have seen the Steelers give up next years first or this years second and next years third? I know which one I like better and if Bush is the player the Steelers are hoping for, it's a steal IMO.

    The chart is a point of reference, it's not the Holy Grail that you can't deviate from. KC ended up paying around 500 more points for Mahomes. You think they care about that now? Colbert also said he won't be beholden to the chart. It would be completely stupid to not grab a player you think will change your team because of a freaking chart.

    Read what I said about Bush again. The Steelers are banking on him being one. You don't move up into the top 10 to just get a good player. They've had their eye on him since last draft, you did know that right?
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  7. mcam

    mcam Well-Known Member

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    I like the fact that you broke it down. Mine is A-

    for Bush, everyone knows here I love the trade up to get him. I had him projected at 10 or 11 latest coming off the board. So if the Steelers wanted him, they'd have to trade up. I do not think Bush will be a Ray Lewis kind of player, BUT I do think he will turn out to be a Lawrence Timmons type of player with solid sideline to sideline speed. In other words, almost guaranteed he will be a solid starter. Throw in potential all pro potential, and it was a good pick. I'm one that believes his height could be a unique asset as you don't know where he's coming from. He is one of the most athletic players in the draft let alone ILB which is a huge need for the Steelers. You'll come around eventually and love the guy lol.

    Johnson - A WR that has some big play potential. He's not Antonio Brown, but he doesn't have to be. That's what Moncrief was brought in for. Give him a couple years and we'll be able to grade him accurately. The Steelers have had a good track record with wide receivers so I'm optimistic.

    Layne - Despite the fact that he's somewhat of a project and the Steelers have sucked developing players as of late, I love this pick. He shows some good man-to-man skills with a weakness on inner slant routes that can be coached up. The only draw back I see is due to his size, he'd be looked at as the backup to Haden, whom I'm not so sure they will re-sign. Optimistic here also.

    Snell - The guy is Le'veon Bell 2.0 without the speed. He cuts just like him, and even has the 'patience' to some degree. Basically he uses his blockers. My concern is his speed. It seemed to be ok to get the job done at the college level. I wonder how it will be for the pros. The guy puts his head down though and gets extra yards. He's more of your pounding running back missing with the other two. I think this pickup is OK seeing he will be the 3rd running back. I don't see a huge glaring need at other positions to take a need position here.

    Gentry - Jessie James 2.0 but FASTER. Where did you get this guy was slow? He's not Gronkowsi, but the guy can run and catch with at least the same capability of Jessie James. So this would be a good pickup IMO

    I don't know much about Smith, Buggs or Gray tbh. These are positions that could use some depth. So I'm not hating or loving the picks based on where they were picked. . We'll see after camp.
     
  8. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Ok so i am late to the party since the Steelers put me in cardiac arrest Thursday night with not only a trade up but with a crappy pick......it is no surprise my feeling towards Bush. Oh well he his here now and I hope he proves me wrong, I am rooting for him but I don't have faith in him. So not reading much of what everyone has posted since I was on vacation all last week/weekend I will give my opinion on this draft. I graded it a C and here is why....again this is just my opinion:

    Round 1 - Devin Bush, ILB, Michigan - Seriously I beat this pick to death before the draft, I watched 2 games of his vs ND and OSU and he made tons of plays.......all on the wrong side of the line of scrimmage. Yeah he is fast big deal if he don't make the play for a loss, between him and Dud we will have both goal lines covered. :facepalm: He is now a Steeler I will root like heck for him and I hope he turns into a superstar and you all make me eat crow but for now my opinion is horrid pick.

    Round 2......OMFG see Bush :shrug:

    Round 3 - Diontae Johnson, WR, Toledo - Hoe do you argue with the Steelers when they draft a WR....well I guess there is one guy here that does :hehehe:. I read that Johnson had a 80+ punt return, kick return and a receiving TD. Looks like the big play guy we are looking for.

    Round 3 - Justin Layne, CB, Michigan State - I know lots here were high on him and a lot earlier. What I am reading is we may have gotten a steal here.

    Round 4 - Benny Snell Jr., RB, Kentucky - Love this pick as I liked this kid coming out of college. My concern was his attitude he had a lot of Lev Bell in him and I am worried about that, but he also is a good runner. Will be a nice 1-2 with Conner.

    Round 5 - Zach Gentry, TE, Michigan - Not a fan here yeah 6-8 might be nice in the red zone but I haven't read a whole lot of good stuff. I did read he was a good blocker so maybe that is where he will shine. With so much talent in this round: Ben Burr-Kirven, Amani Oruwariye, Vosean Joseph, Greenlaw, Renfrow, Keke, Wilson, Hollins, Cashman, Jackson, Mack, Omenihu, Smith, Walker and Edwards this round was loaded and we may regret this pick.


    Round 6 - Sutton Smith, LB, Northern Illinois - I don't know much about this pick but it has me scratching my head. Is he inside or outside and if he is inside why....Didn't we get our inside guy in round one.......:shrug:


    Round 6 - Isaiah Buggs, DT, Alabama - Like this pick a guy who can play inside and out like Cam and maybe just maybe this will end the McCullers era.........:beg::beg::beg:

    Round 6 - Ulysees Gilbert III, LB, Akron - Love this pick insurance for when Bush don't work out. I know some here were high on him and he will need time but can be pretty good with what I saw.


    Round 7 - Derwin Gray, G, Maryland - Great pick in round 7.

    All in all we drafted 3 mac players wow. Someone told me we weren't gonna use all out 10 picks, man he was right we only used 9:shrug:. I feel like we got some good players and am hoping for the best but right now I give it a C at best. Go Steelers.
     
  9. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Been waiting for you, NY :lolol:

    You didn't disappoint :popcorn:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a good possibility that Gilbert could be a gunner on STs. 4.45 will get him down the field.:cool:
     
  11. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Yeah been enjoying the sunny weather down south and the golf courses and after Thursday night I did not wanna talk football. The guys I was with(2 steeler fans) did like the show.....lol! No need for the popcorn cause I just gave my opinion, someone is gonna be right and someone is gonna be wrong. For our sake I sure hope it will be me as that will mean a good season......but man if I am right I hope KC and MT get sent packing!!!!
     
  12. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    And I think he could end up our starting ILB after Bush falls on his face........:cool:
     
  13. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Settle down .....sounds like you could use a beer.....

    image.jpeg

    That extra C is for champion ...:shrug:
     
  14. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    LMAO....I am in detox right now MR. Liver needs a rest. :shrug:

    Hey what kind of beer was that.....................Buuuussssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  15. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Also I am now boycotting that beer cause of it's name......it will have to be earned!!!!!!!1 lmao
     
  16. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I know you hate the pick but give him a chance. People are raving about him. Louis Riddick loves him. College doesn't always equate to the NFL positively or negatively. There are too many variables regarding success or failure. No matter what people try to claim. One mans trash is another mans treasure. Sometimes the system and the team are the difference between players succeeding and vice versa. He has the tools and the intangibles are supposedly off the charts. Give him a chance. I think he's gonna surprise you....:shrug::shrug:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Given the way people waste the site's bandwidth, that's hardly unusual. :)
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  18. Destroyer

    Destroyer Member

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    I can see that with him moving to starting LB in a year or two.
     
  19. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree and like I said in my rating of the draft this is just my opinion.......he is a Steeler and I will root for him. I also am hoping to eat crow as I would rather be wrong then have the Steelers lose. I had the same conversation with Blast about VW I wasn't a fan and then came around.........:shrug:

    .......let me clear my throat.............:lolol:
     
  20. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    With the exception of Bush, who was obviously talked about a lot and every fan was already familiar with the only guy they took that I liked and was familiar with was Snell. So there was quite a bit of initial disappointment with each players name they called.

    Having spent time getting to know DJ and Layne since the draft, I can honestly say I am pretty excited about the first 4 picks.

    I was always 50/50 on Bush so I'm just going to hope he is the player that many people think he is. Steelers don't move up very often, I'm going to give them the benefit of doubt that they only do so when they know they have something special.

    Pop in the tape of DJ and it's obvious that AB's game jumps out at you. I'm not saying he will be that successful but its clear the Steelers were looking for those traits and hoping to duplicate the success they had with AB. Pro Football Focus really likes him too.

    PFF also really likes Layne:

    Snell is my favorite pick so far, I think he is going to be a great back for us. I hope the coaching staff gets him a fair amount of work but if not, they have a good safety net in case JC gets hurt again.

    Sleeper pick is Sutton. That could end up being a pretty good one too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I feel the same way pretty much I didn't know who DJ was I do believe someone here mentioned him and might of even put up a highlight clip on him. I know there were so many other wr's I was looking at but I trust the Steelers when it comes to wr's. Layne got a ton of talk here so I was familiar but I wasn't an expert. Durning our mock draft I looked up Buggs so I had a little idea about him. Sutton, Gray and Gentry I was blank on and Gilbert was talked about a bit on here.

    Snell was the biggest name I was familiar with as well. I liked him early on however I am real worried about his cockyness. I am guessing he feel due to his 40 time but I don't put a ton of stock into that, like I said before how many times does a guy run a straight 40? I agree if JC goes down we now have the insurance I have wanted for awhile.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I hope he flashes in training camp and preseason, that would be 2 rookie ILB's with 4.4 speed on the roster in Gilbert and Bush. Hopefully this makes Matavekich expendable.
     
  23. turtle

    turtle

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    The 4.9 40 :shrug: Isn't that what Jarvis Jones ran (wind aided) :lolol:.
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  24. turtle

    turtle

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  25. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Pretty eye opening about just how good he is at STs even throughout the league. I agree with the article that he's gonna be hard to get rid of. While it would be great to have two LBs on the roster that can fly,the fact of the matter is STs is a very important phase as well. Not to mention there's a steep learning curve in the NFL and you have to have a backup plan if someone gets hurt. Dirty Red is no world beater but he has experience. Not only would a rookie have to be better at STs( doubtful) but he has to show he's ready to step in sooner than later.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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