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Hargrave is most likely done as a Steeler

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by steelersrule6, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    The Steelers aren't going to pay him more than Heyward and Tuitt, he will probably go to a 4/3 team where he will play more snaps.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Better hope Tuitt doesn't go belly up again. If Heyward or Tuitt miss any significant time in 2020.... defense will regress substantially. Steelers have little to no proven depth on D-line, no cap money to spend and 4th and 5th round draft picks aren't gonna cut it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. BigBensBigBong

    BigBensBigBong Well-Known Member

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    I hope our defense does not turn out to be a one year wonder.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    I think we all knew that he had played his last game in the black and gold, it was wishful thinking that the Steelers might be able to hold on to his services. What a great pick he was, and what a great servant he has been for the team, just unfortunate timing that he hits his contract year when they already have two highly paid defensive linemen

    Good luck to him, I hope he gets a great contract somewhere and has along career.
     
  5. Iowasteeljim

    Iowasteeljim

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    Well, I guess this squashes the debate about which to keep him or Bud.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS Well-Known Member

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    Hey steelerrule6.

    I personally am not that concerned with the possible departure of Hargrave. To me he does not fit the “Bill” for the “Prototype NT” that I want on this team. I have stated this numerous times here. He is more built for a DE role. I have said, and continue to advocate, for a Casey Hampton-Type NT. We already have Tuitt , Heyward and Alualu whom offer the same Proto-Type as Hargrave

    I am grateful for all that Javon has done for the Steelers. He is a great player but I think we can move on without him and be an even more effective Defense with a bigger body NT that requires the opposing offenses to commit multiple blockers to. By doing so, we have a better chance of getting a sack, hand-off for a loss, or at minimum, keeping the other team in a 3rd and 10 situation. This should free up other members on our “D” to generate greater pressure and allow our DC to be more creative.

    This is what I envision with the Casey Hampton-Type NT: We stymie the opposition into 3rd and longs. Now you can bring a faster player in, like Alualu, and force three and out relatively quickly. It may not happen on the first set of downs but I feel it will happen much quicker than what we are achieving now.

    I know, I know. I have heard the counter-argument many times over and over. That the Casey Hampton type of NT is “Obsolete” in this NFL day and age. That it cannot be justified to keep a player that will only play 1-2 snaps per possession or every new first down. However, Hargrave is already playing limited snaps. This way we mix and match the two different NT types to be more productive.

    This is about the quality of snaps versus the quantity of snaps that our NT plays. I am not sure of this but I thought I heard/read that Poe was available, and for relatively cheap. I had wanted the Steelers to draft him just for this. If he is not available, then we draft a big body NT that fits the “Bill” that I described. Hargrave is already playing “limited” snaps as it is. By bringing in the type of NT that I want, we add a different type of player to the “D” that is not on the current roster.


    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  7. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    I assumed this would happen. As for our D being a one year wonder, I remember Cam Newton after the year his team went 15-1, he said something to the effect that fans need to realize that even with same players the results can be different. Maybe if you could keep the same great players for 7-8 years the results would be similar (see 70 Steelers!!) but doing that in today's NFL ain't happening.
     
  8. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Like I’ve been pointing to, the TOs aren’t a given and that was a big part of our success. We lead the league in sacks the last 3 years and 2 of those years were without much contribution from Dupree in that dept. That’s why I don’t think his loss would be as dramatic as some are predicting. Now losing 3 players that are contributing as well just to sign 1, would potentially have a bigger impact on our success or lack there of as a team.
     
  9. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Ross Blacklock, Davon Hamilton, Reshard Lawrence or Neville Gallimore are the likely incumbents. Of the four, I would rather have Blacklock due to his great potential but Hamilton is not a bad option should the team find that depth later in the draft.
     
  10. turtle

    turtle

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    I saw that Spotrac figure last week and figured he'd be a goner. I just hope they catch lightning in a bottle again in the 3rd round like they did with Hargrave. He allowed our DEs to be freed up quite a bit. I hope they draft a guy with one of their first four picks to be a suitable replacement. Davon Hamilton from OSU seems to be making the rounds on Steeler sites
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS Well-Known Member

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    Hey AskQuestionsLater.
    Like or dislike him but a proven commodity. Here we go.... Leveon Bell. He did not accrue a lot of mileage since he was last here. He knows our system. He is a multi-threat that opposing defenses have to special game plan for. I know he is somewhat of a jerk but AB set the bar way to high for even Bell to reach that height. I say a one-year incentive laced deal to re-prove himself.
    Hey the steeldeal.

    I know it has been mentioned here several times before but hey I will reiterate it again. Personally, I feel that Dupree's uptick in productivity this past season was primarily due to the other pieces that were brought in on the "D". Minkah, Nelson, Barron all contributed to taking our "D" to a new level. They helped create opportunities for Dupree to become a better player in which he capitalized on.

    What continues to mystify me is why Edmunds has not been able to do the same. He is a "good" athlete with a lot of raw athletic skill that up to this point, has not translated into becoming a "good" football player. Maybe this year. I hope so. I do not want to be in the same boat as with Dupree and have him turn the corner in the final year of his rookie contract. If that happens it will again put Management in between a rock and a hard place when it comes down to negotiating his new contract.


    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  12. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    They can find a starting NT in the 3rd or 4th round, just like they found Hargrave.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    With all the returning players on defense, I'm not worried about them being a one year wonder, they might be better with a improved offense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82

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    The key is also to keep scheming towards players strengths.

    I know it’s an unpopular view, but I don’t think it’s coincidence that the season Tomlin starts being more hands on the defense and Butler less, we see a marked improvement all round (not withstanding Minkah’s arrival).

    That’s not necessarily an endorsement of Tomlin, more a plea to keep Butler with the LBers and nowhere near the whiteboard.
     
  15. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    John pinisini utah. :cool:
     
  16. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    We had trouble against the run. Far too often this was a result of Hargrave getting pushed backwards. I think we can improve here. I’m not the big fan many are.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    If Hargrave leaves, count on another year of Big Dan.
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  18. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I agree 100% plus maybe a cheap guy like Shelton in FA he was a 1m bargain last year.
     
  19. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    Yes. The defense can improve by simply having the support of a better offense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Interesting enough, Andrew Billings is on the market. Myself and others were high on him, projected first or second rd pick but he fell to the fourth. We took Hargrave in the 3rd.

    Haven’t followed his career though, if he has done as well as Hargrave, won’t be able to afford him either.
     
  21. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting I remember many here wanted him and many of the mocks had us taking him. I remember a lot of people mentioning him as our 1st round pick and when draft time came we passed on him and he slid down the draft board to like round 3 if I remember right. I do remember so many were amazed he was still on the board and were wondering why.

    When Bunholes drafted him he made a comment that we would pay for passing on him for years to come. I have not followed him but I don't not remember him having any wow games for them. With that said he has to be better than big Dan......lol!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Found this nice post on BTSC. I figured I’d put it here because the Dupree thread is long enough. The fellow did a nice job of going through all the numbers and provided what I believe is a accurate assessment of the financials it’s going to take to sign either Hargrave or Dupree....the decision isn’t as cut and dry as some think.



    UFA’s:
    OLB Bud Dupree
    DL Javon Hargrave
    OL BJ Finney
    TE Nick Vannett
    ILB Tyler Matakevich
    S Sean Davis
    DL LT Walton
    CB Artie Burns

    Possible Cuts:
    ILB Mark Barron – $5.25M
    TE Vance McDonald – $5.67M
    OLB Anthony Chickillo – $5.00M
    OL Ramon Foster – $4.00M
    P Jordan Berry – $1.80M
    DL Dan McCullers – $1.50M
    FB Roosevelt Nix – $1.88M
    Total Cap Savings: $25.1M

    RFA’s:
    OL Matt Feiler
    OL Zach Banner
    CB Mike Hilton
    LS Kameron Canaday
    S Jordan Dangerfield
    DL Lavon Hooks (ERFA)

    Lowest RFA tag (original round) is $2.14M, 2nd Round Tender is $3.28M, 1st Round is $4.67M

    Feiler and Hilton are most likely to be tendered. The others will likely be re-signed at a lower cap number. I would expect Feiler to be given a 2nd round tender and Hilton probably an original round. If you estimate veteran minimum ($.73M) for the rest of the guys, that is $3.28M + $2.14M + $.73M + $.73M + $.73M + $.65M (2019 ERFA tender cost) = $8.26M

    $25.1M – $8.26M – $5.00M draft class = $11.84M

    So that’s $11.84M to sign all UFA’s. Even if Bud Dupree accepted the transition tag for a LB, that tag number is $14.08M. So Bud Dupree would be pretty difficult to fit even if they really wanted him. It’s "possible", but putting all of the offseason resources into one player doesn’t seem like that wise of a move – especially when it creates so many holes elsewhere.

    The End
     
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  23. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Aw jeez man don't you know don't matter Colbert will figure it out............:shrug:
     
    • Very Optimistic Very Optimistic x 1
  24. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I know....I’m just trying to help;)
     
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  25. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Switzer , 735,000
    Holton , 735,000
    Edmunds, 735,000

    2.205 million more in the kitty.

    Shazier 800,000

    3.05 mil.

    Amara darboh. 660,000
    Marcus allen. 660,000

    Another 1.32 million.

    That 4.37 mil. more.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020

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