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Hakeem Butler at #20

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by steelersrule6, Mar 26, 2019.

  1. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Well you can never have enough CB's and Haden isn't getting any younger and we really don't know what we have in Nelson. This is a perfect spot to grab one of the top 3 if they fall and strengthen a position we have been week at for years........years. As for TE what happens when Vance goes down not to mention man we could use another threat there and Fant fits the bill imo. We are looking to go with 3 safeties so Adderly would see plenty of playing time and we need an OLB. So my take is them positions are bigger needs even with starters in place. Also keep in mind like I pointed out still stud WR's in the 2nd round. jmo
     
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  2. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Very true about Juju we don't know how he will respond as the #1 but Mocrief and JW will fill in just fine and add in a draft pick in round 2 even better. No need to get away from what has been working, when was the last WR we had that was good that we drafted in the first round? Also tons of talent to continue our run of good WR's in round 2.
     
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  3. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I don't know a lot about Jennings but the one game I watched of Sills was his bowl game and they were feeding him the ball like crazy.
     
  4. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget about Eli :shrug:
     
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    What happens if juju goes down? We at least have grimble if Vance goes down. maybe not ideal but he played as a blocked over jesse a lot of the time. He can get downfield as well.

    we also have sutton that could spot start and hopefully allen finally sees the field this year, plus hilton hopefully. I don't think the top 3 are head and shoulders above some other corners in this draft. We can use a lot of positions and make claims for the pick, but we lost 3 wrs. We just gave dupree 9+ million dollars. We have to keep Ben stocked. Moncrief is a good addition but this position is still a need.

    I'm a perfect world I would like burns, love, wilson, Boykin and long jr. I'd be very happy.:cool:
     
  6. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Jennings sat out. I've seen a lot of these guys. Sills was a pretty good qb. That's what he wanted to play. I believe Jennings translates better against pro dbs. :cool:
     
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  7. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    My opinion is if we draft a WR in the top 4 rounds Eli will be the odd man out. Juju, Moncrief, JW and draft pick will see most of the time and balls.
     
  8. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Well no matter what I say you won't agree with cause your mind is made up. :smiley1: Grimble is not a guy I want as a number 1 for a game or 2 so TE to me is more important. Also if Sutton was good enough to step in we wouldn't have spent that kind of money bringing in Nelson. Don't get me wrong I like Sutton and think he is serviceable but he isn't starter material. I also think there is a big difference between Murphy, Williams and Bakers over the rest and I am a Ya-sin supporter but he isn't in their class. Any one of them top 3 can come right in an start if needed. However the biggest point you missing is the fact that the WR class is super deep and no need to draft one in the first. all other positions take a drop in talent but WR pretty much stays right there in the next round. jmo :smiley1:
     
  9. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    :lolol: Ok. Hope they reward your faith.
     
  10. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    So let me understand something if we show optimism in our players we get ripped on this board and if we point out flaws we get ripped on here I am not sure I get it anymore around here.

    I know you are one of the Ben backers and that is fine that is where your dislike for JW is coming from. I am not gonna get into the whole JW/Ben thing again with you I think we beat that into the ground.....twice. I have faith in JW as long as our great leader will give him a chance!!!!! As for Moncfief well our OC/QB (Ben) loves to throw it deep and I have a feeling that will be Moncriefs main role.

    So while I have faith in our current group plus a draft pick it will all come down to our leader getting them the ball. You can be as good as you want to be but if you don't get the ball you won't be able to show it. jmo :smiley1:
     
  11. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Oh come on NY, that was hardly ripping and genuinely meant I hope they reward your faith because that's obviously a good thing.

    Your comment was funny to me though, that you're sure Moncrief and Washington will be fine. Based on what exactly??? I know you keep trying to make the narrative about me not liking Washington which couldn't be further from the truth so lets just remove that whole angle from the discussion and say, that for whatever reason, whomever people want to blame, Washington had very little production last season. Is that fair to say? So based on that, how are you sure he will be fine?

    And Moncrief is hard to gauge because Luck was hurt most of the time and last season he played with Bortles. Which, is actually the best indicator we have to go on. If he can put up nearly 700 yards with Bortles, that should only improve with Ben.

    But until we see it play out, our receiving corps is a big unknown and would not surprise me if they go WR in the first.
     
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  12. turtle

    turtle

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    ha good stuff. JW is certainly more unknown than a known commodity but I also have faith he will grow by leaps in year 2. But I will admit they need to add to the WR mix with a top pick. I would prefer they do it in the 2nd or with their high 3rd just because I don't see the top WRs being THAT much better than what you can get in the 2nd or 3rd. I'm not a fan of DK Metcalf and Marquise Brown would just be awkward imo. I honestly don't know where AJ Brown is projected round wise but he's not an X. Kneal Harry and Kelvin Harmon aren't 1st rounders. So really Butler is about the only option but his inconsistency with catching bothers me some. Will it bother the Steelers??

    I think you can get the same pros and cons of a WR in the 2nd and 3rd and use the 1st on a position of greater need.
     
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  13. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    I like our WR group.
     
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  14. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Ok putting all the BS aside forgetting about all the drama here is my opinion. First off I will start with this it will be hard to replace AB and with that said it has to happen and we must move on. As for JW let's not forget that he had AB and Juju ahead of him and he also had Hunter and Switzer who also needed balls. Throw into that Vance and James as well as Conner catching a chunk. Unlike Juju 2 years ago JW had many people he had to share with. Juju had a great rookie season and took the #2 role without question. JW was not gonna knock off AB or Juju as much of a fan of him as I am he just is not gonna beat out them 2. So you see JW was not gonna but up the numbers many think he should have cause he didn't get the chance to, don't mean he can't do it. Towards the end of the season he did improve his game and did the most he could in weeks 13,14 and 16 and that is why I feel he can do it. JMO

    As for Moncrief well he had really good season with the Colts/Luck and he had an ok season last year with the QBless Jagoffs. What I like about him is he is the deep threat Ben loves and what we need to open up things for Juju/JW/Eli and draft pick.

    So while I agree with you that our WR's are a bit of an unknown don't mean that they can't do it right. Let's not forget the Ben factor, I mean to some people here Ben walks on water. I mean AB would have never been anything without Ben so some think so if that is the case he should be able to make this group good right? On a serious note Ben is a veteran QB and honestly should be able to help these guys out, its not like these guys don't have talent.

    My out look is this one of if not the best olines in the game, a good running back and a good TE in Vance. Juju is no joke but will be taking on a whole new role and JW and Moncrief will have to play big and they need to add a draft pick here. Throw into that a veteran QB and I guess I am a little more optimistic in this group of WR's that most.:smiley1:

    AB will be missed however he is not irreplaceable.....nobody is!
     
  15. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this 100%, I am not saying JW will do it I just feel he can. I also agree that with so many holes no way we go WR in the first. I have no problem with Deebo Samuel in the 2nd and get the same numbers as Butler in the first. I also feel Isabella, Sills, Renfrow and Hardman can offer the same value later on as well. JMO
     
  16. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    The only WR worthy of pick 20 is Metcalf and that is taking a gamble on his freakish athleticism. There are at least 5 or 6 similar WRs that you can bunch together. Butler,Brown,Harry Arcega,Harmon and probably a couple more I'm missing. With that much depth and not much separating their talent why would you use your 20th pick on one of them? None really stands out from the rest and their success will most likely be based on their individual situation rather than their individual skill. IMO I would be looking for more of a versatile offensive weapon like a Isabella or my personal crush Hardman;). They can be had later in the draft and have a positive impact with limited touches because of their ridiculous speed and versatility. IMO I would take a 10 year TE over a cookie cutter WR in the 1st. Just as many good options later....
     
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  17. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I am with ya man there is a ton of WR depth and no matter where we draft one 1st, 2nd, 3rd round he won't be an impact right away where as a TE can come in and see more action imo. I don't know the numbers as to how much we used two TE sets but here are some snap counts:

    TE's
    Vance 564
    JJ 562

    WR's
    AB 998
    Juju 960
    JW 526
    Switzer 302

    I am looking for a #2 TE in the first round over a #4 WR since the drop off at TE in the later rounds is way bigger than the drop off at WR. jmo
     
  18. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Yessir!
     
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  19. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Notable contested catch percentages, draft-eligible WRs:

    Gary Jennings 54.0%
    N'Keal Harry 53.2
    Kelvin Harmon 51.4
    A.J. Brown 51.3
    JJ Arcega-Whiteside 49.4
    Hakeem Butler 45.2
    Anthony Johnson 43.4
    Deebo Samuel 37.9
    Andy Isabella 34.8
    Emanuel Hall 25.0
    Marquise Brown 21.7@PFF


    Interesting stats. The only big bodied guys in the bottom half are Hall and Johnson who both go about 6'2. You would expect the smaller guys to be less proficient of course.
     
  20. Jball

    Jball Well-Known Member

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    A couple 3rd -4th rd guys I really like, Mecole Hardman, and Jalen Hurd.

    Hardman is an AB type. Note very big but really explosive and great with the ball in his hand.
    Same with Hurd obviously as a former rb. He has great size, and good speed and looks really loose for a tall guy.
     
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  21. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    If they were not looking for an early wr, why are they looking at so many early wrs?:hmm::cool:
     
  22. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    As of right now, the only offensive players I would even consider for the Steelers in the 1st round are Hockenson, Fant, and maybe a tackle like Jonah Williams if the board falls in a bad way for our immediate needs during picks 1-19. I’ve watched plenty of Hockenson and Fant on film, and I think they each would impact Day 1 more than any of the WRs I’ve watched. Hockenson is the only offensive player I would trade up for if he makes it past the mid teens.
     
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  23. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    @thesteeldeal is gonna love this....lol. He mentioned Hardman to me and I watched him and he is real good. I hope this kid is on our list for sure........
     
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  24. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    With what we have now, I think they are going to look for a WR that can play inside and out. Juju , washington, moncrief are all better outside, we need a guy that can play the spot and play outside if needed. Eli and switzer are fine in the slot but they can not stretch the field from there. JMO.:cool:
     
  25. Jball

    Jball Well-Known Member

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