Gun Control or Gun freedoms ... that is the national debate

I borrowed this piece from a poster on another site , very well written and thought out ... Yes it is LONG but well worth the read





Figured I'd share a write-up I put together. It's a little long, but (IMO) worth the read.

Compiling a list of rampage shootings that made the news leads to an inescapable conclusion: The proven effective way to stop these events isn't through "gun free zones" or gun control, but rather the opposite.



The data:



9/6/1949 - Howard Barton Unruh went on a shooting rampage in Camden, New Jersey with a German Luger. He shot up a barber shop, a pharmacy and a tailor's shop killing 13 people. He finally surrendered after a shoot-out with police.

8/1/1966 - Charles Joseph Whitman climbed a tower at the University of Texas in Austin, Texas and began shooting at other students and faculty with a sniper rifle. He killed 16 people before being shot and killed by police.

7/18/1984 - James Oliver Huberty shot up a McDonalds in San Ysidro, California killing 21 people before police shoot and killed him.

10/16/1991 - George Hennard entered Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas and began indiscriminately shooting the patrons. He killed 23 people in all. He commit suicide after being cornered and wounded in a shootout with police.

11/15/1995 - Jamie Rouse used a .22-caliber semi-automatic rifle to fire indiscriminately inside Richland High School in Lynnville, Tennessee. He killed 2 people before being tackled by a football player and a coach.

2/2/1996 - Barry Loukaitis entered Frontier Middle School in Moses Lake, Washington with a rifle and two handguns. He killed 3 people before the Gym teacher, Jon Lane grabbed the rifle and wrestled the gunman to the ground.

10/1/1997 - Luke Woodham put on a trench coat to conceal a hunting rifle and entered Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi. He killed 3 students before vice principal Joel Myrick apprehended him with a Colt .45 without firing.

12/1/1997 - Michael Carneal brought a pistol, two rifles and two shotguns to his high school in Paducah, Kentucky and opened fire on a small prayer group killing 3 girls. His rampage was halted when he was tackled by another student.

4/24/1998 - Andrew Wurst attended a middle school dance in Edinboro, Pennsylvania intent on killing a bully but shot wildly into the crowd. He killed 1 student. James Strand lived next door. When he heard the shots he ran over with his 12 gauge shotgun and apprehended the gunman without firing.

5/21/1998 - Kipland Kinkel entered Thurston High School in Springfield, Oregon with two pistols and a semi-automatic rifle hidden under a trench coat. He opened fire killing 2 students, but while reloading a wounded student named Jacob Ryker tackled him.

4/20/1999 - Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris were the killers behind the Columbine shooting in Littleton, Colorado. The two both commit suicide after police arrived, but what many people do not know is that the school's armed security guard and the police all stood and waited outside the library while executions happed right inside. 15 people died, not including the shooters.

7/31/1999 - Mark Barton was a daytrader who went on a shooting rampage through two day trading firms in Atlanta, Georgia. He killed 12 people in all and after a police chase he was surrounded by police at a gas station where he commit suicide.

1/16/2002 - Peter Odighizuwa opened fire with a handgun at The Appalachian School in Grundy, Virginia. 3 people were killed before the shooter was apprehended by 3 students, Mikael Gross, Ted Besen, and Tracy Bridges with handguns without firing.

8/27/2003 - Salvador Tapia entered an auto parts store in Chicago, Illinois and shot and killed 6 people with a handgun. He then waged a gunbattle with police before a SWAT team fatally wounded him.

9/24/2003 - John Jason McLaughlin brought a .22-caliber pistol to Rocori High School in Cold Spring, Minnesota. He killed 2 people before PE teacher, Mark Johnson confronted him, disarmed him, and held him in the school office for police to arrive.

2/25/2005 - David Hernandez Arroyo Sr. opened fire on a public square from the steps of a courthouse in Tyler, Texas. The shooter was armed with an assault rifle and wearing body armor. Mark Wilson fired back with a handgun, hitting the shooter but not penetrating the armor. Mark drew the shooter's fire, and ultimately drove him off, but was fatally wounded. Mark was the only death in this incident.

3/21/2005 - Jeff Weise was a student at Red Lake High School in Red Lake, Minnesota. He killed 7 people including a teacher and a security guard. When police cornered him inside the school, he shot and killed himself.

11/8/2005 - Kenneth Bartley, Jr. brought a .22 caliber pistol to Campbell County Comprehensive High School in Jacksboro, Tennessee and killed 1 person before being disarmed by a teacher.

9/29/2006 - Eric Hainstock brought a .22 caliber revolver and a 20-gauge shotgun into Weston High School in Cazenovia, Wisconson. He killed 1 person before staff and students apprehended him and held him until the police arrived.

4/16/2007 - Seung-Hui Cho was the shooter behind the Virgina Tech shooting in Blacksburg, Virginia. Police apprehend the wrong suspect allowing the shooter to walk across campus and open fire again in a second location. He eventually commit suicide after murdering 32 people.

9/3/2008 - Isaac Zamora went on a shooting rampage in Alger, Washington that killed 6 people, including a motorist shot during a high speed chase with police. He eventually surrendered to police.

3/29/2009 - Robert Stewart went on a killing rampage armed with a rifle, and a shotgun in a nursing home in Carthage, North Carolina. He killed 8 people and was apprehended after a shootout with police.

4/3/2009 - Jiverly Wong went on a shooting rampage at a American Civic Association immigration center in Binghamton, New York where he was enrolled in a citizenship class. 13 people were killed before the shooter killed himself. Witnesses say he turned the gun on himself as soon as he heard police sirens approaching.

11/5/2009 - Nidal Malik Hasan was the shooter behind the Fort Hood shooting at a military base just outside Killeen, Texas. The shooter entered the Soldier Readiness Processing Center, where personnel are disarmed, armed with a laser sighted pistol and a Smith & Wesson revolver. He killed 13 people before he was shot by a Civilian Police officer.

2/12/2010 - Amy Bishop went on a shooting rampage in classroom at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, Alabama. She killed 3 people before the Dean of the University, Debra Moriarity pushed the her out of the room and blockaded the door. She was arrested later.

1/8/2011 - Jared Lee Loughner is charged with the shooting in Tucson, Arizona that killed 6 people, including Chief U.S. District Court Judge John Roll. He was stopped when he was tackled by two civilians.

2/27/2012 - T.J. Lane entered Chardon High School in Chardon, Ohio with a handgun and started shooting. 3 students died. The shooter was chased out of the building by a teacher and apprehended by police later.

4/22/2012 - Kiarron Parker opened fire in a church parking lot in Aurora, Colorado. The shooter killed 1 person before being shot and killed by a member of the congregation who was carrying concealed.

7/20/2012 - James Holmes went into a crowded movie theater in Aurora, Colorado and opens fire with an AR-15 semi-automatic assault rifle. 12 people were killed, before the shooter surrendered to police.

8/5/2012 - Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page killed himself.

9/27/2012 - Five were shot to death by 36-year-old Andrew Engeldinger at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, MN. Engeldinger went on a rampage after losing his job, ultimately killing himself.

12/11/2012 - 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. Roberts killed himself upon arrival of police.

12/14/2012 - 20 year old Adam Lanza kills 26 in multiple locations including 20 children between the ages of 5 and 10 at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT. He killed himself.



Average deaths in events stopped by police or suicide: 14.3

Average deaths in events stopped by unarmed civilians: 2.6

Average deaths in events stopped by armed civilians: 1.8



Rather than spinning our wheels with talk of "outlawing guns" (which is neither feasible nor practical), we should be enacting policies that mitigate the risk and severity of these events, and scrapping policies that exacerbate them. The single most counterproductive of these policies is the "gun- free zone", which literally does nothing but disarm the only people who can possibly end the rampage early and advertise to would-be mass-murderers that the people at that location are defenseless.

It's time to stop looking at CCW carriers as potential threats and start looking at them as a potential answer. These people undergo mandatory screening, training, and (most of them) mandatory demonstrations of proficiency and accuracy before being allowed to walk around armed. These people aren't a threat to anybody, they're responsible, law-abiding citizens.

Allowing these people the right to go about their daily business armed doesn't make anybody less-safe, and at the very least it provides a strong disincentive to the would-be mass- murderer, who can never be sure if there's anyone around with a gun or not.



As for the gun control arguments (which always spring up in the aftermath of these events), it's time to start being pragmatic and adult about this. There is simply no way to make guns disappear legally. It's a foolish pipe-dream; about as realistic as a law that makes everyone rich or a law that abolishes cancer. So any argument that begins with "If he didn't have a gun" is a waste of time.

Laws do not, in and of themselves, create any desired outcome. Just as prohibition didn't end the existence of alcohol, nor drunk driving laws ended drunk driving, gun control will never make guns disappear. What laws do is provide a disincentive to behavior, by establishing a punishment for violating the behavior. The problem there is that they do absolutely nothing to deter those who 1) aren't concerned about getting caught or 2) do not fear the consequence. Laws only ever affect the behavior of those who obey the law.

Accordingly, gun control laws do absolutely nothing other than disarm law-abiding citizens. I would argue that (as has been proven repeatedly) that's the exact opposite of what we ought to be doing.






as a side note ( dwins here now ) about an hour before the latest tragic even with a madman and his guns that took place in Connecticut there was an article on Yahoo about a madman in China ( total gun control since the 1930s ) this BUTCHER went into an elementary school and mangled 22 children with his knives , just goes to show you if someone is crazy enough and wants to commit such a tragic act they will find a way to do so Guns or no Guns .......