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general draft talk 2013-14 addition

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by mac daddyo, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member Mod Team

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    Agreed on the OL early, although I think Fiedorowicz will be a pedestrian TE. I want Ebron or Amaro.. Call me greedy BF :smiley1:
     
  2. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    as our current roster shows? we have one of the best in the business. how many have we even looked at because of it? we are not looking for a starter at TE. at pick 15 that's what we should be looking at not a 2nd or 3rd TE.

    there are plenty of good TE's past these 3. these 3 are as highly touted as they are because everyone wants to find a gronk. these guys are not really TE's as we know TE's. TE's do a lot of blocking and are good at it. that's been the trouble finding TE's around here as you say. they can't block. I'm sure Paulson would be fine if all he had to do was play WR. they knew this when they drafted him. his problem has always been his blocking and still is. does that justify a # 15 pick? he** no.

    having a few good games by our line, with a lot of help from our TE that can block is not very comforting to me, as much as some think we are set. we still gave up 40+ sacks last year. we saw how heaths injury set us back.

    we saw how our 2nd round LT played. we saw our other 2nd round supposed LT wasn't able to play that position, as did the coaching staff.

    we have a third, 7th rounder that held down the position just good enough. after him we are in deep chit. no o-line coach is going to make adams feet any more athletic then they are. sorry I don't buy our line is championship caliber as it sits. giving ben more weapons is one way of thinking about it, but giving ben more time and a cleaner pocket helps the whole offense run better. we have work left to do in that department and are not quite close to a finished product yet. ben can kill defenses if he has the time. I'm all for giving him that time. that's why we have him.

    what happens if beachum goes down like pouncey this year? chances of finding a Fernando velasco at LT will not be near as easy. it also takes beachum, our swiss army knife out of the equation at any other spot if needed. that is to important of a position to leave up to one guy. it is the most important position on the line. we don't make big splashes in free agency so through the draft is where we find most of our starters. I think TE as the 15th pick in the draft is crazy. :cool:
     
  3. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    i can follow you... but who is the sure left tackle (and for sure i mean not another adams) that could be available at 15 ? you sayd yankey , that i like as a guard but at left tackle ???''
     
  4. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I said yankey because I thought he could be a starter at LG, BUT he was also an all-American at LT last year. that would give us a better LG starter and a better option at LT if beachum got hurt. 2 for 1 pick. that's why I like yankey so much.

    he's not declared as far as I know though. the LT spot has dwindled a lot since some of these guys went back to school. that's why martin is now ranked as a #2 senior LT now. big dropoff.

    I think yankey could be the one last piece of the O-line puzzle we need to make this offense really soar.

    it's not like there won't be some good, big wr's later. just not many LT capable guys that could upgrade us at two positions. Wesley Johnson may be the only other I could think of and yankey is the better of the two. there would be a bigger chance we wouldn't get johnson down the line. :cool:
     
  5. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member Mod Team

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    The idea that a 2nd TE has to be a back-up is no longer valid. All teams run multiple sets throughout a game and usually stick with whatever personnel grouping is working best.

    I believe Cincy drafted Gresham and Eifert early in our own division. They didn't go after the number "2" WR, they went after another weapon.

    IMO It doesn't matter if it's a WR or TE, it's a pass receiver. Thus why I don't care if it's a WR or TE in the 1st but I want both early. So, I believe in order to get the best of both of these positions we need to draft TE early and WR later. No offense but I think you're thinking inside the box on this one mac..
     
  6. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Oh I totally agree, thats my wish list too, I just meant that if the Steelers aren't looking to go TE early, that Fiedorowicz could be a guy theyd grab, Heath is getting older, maybe C.J. can be our next Heath. But I totally want Ebron or Amaro.

    You misunderstood what I wrote. We've had success drafting WR's in the later rounds, not so with our TE's, Heath was a first round pick. The other guys I would trade a sack of footballs for and they aren't even remotely as talented as Ebron or Amaro.

    As Numbah pointed out, you can't just keep throwing first round picks at the line and as you pointed out, we have a 7th rounder manning LT, so why do we have to go so high again? But the one position they haven't had any success at after the first round is TE, sorry but I think it's crazy to pass on a weapon like that. The line has been improving, they don't need to spend a first round on it, I'm not saying not to address it at all, better not be another first round though.
     
  7. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    btw
    yankey declares
    http://www.ruleoftree.com/2014/1/13...-for-nfl-draft-expected-to-be-high-draft-pick
     
  8. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    there are far less LT's to choose from is the reason. we have had very good success with first round O-linemen. not so much past that. if we took yankey at 15, he could start at LG, and backup the 7th rounder at LT at a much higher rate then what we have now in two 2nd's.

    even as a 2nd TE in two TE sets, they have to be able to block. that's where we were running into trouble. when spaeth came back we looked a whole lot better with our # 1 TE being able to block and receive. amaro is a glorified wr. ebron is in the same mold. at least saf-Jenkins was used more and is a better blocker than the first two.

    niklas from ND is another one in the mix now and could push fiedorowicz down the boards. Jensen, grimble,bosler. all good blocking and good receiving TE's. Jensen has long arms and huge hands with his big body. he can snag balls most guys wouldn't with those assets.

    I am also not against a bigger starting wr, not named evans at 15. add heath and any of these others with him and that starting wr and then we have something that benefits ben and helps the run game too. that's all.

    don't pigeon hole me to the O-line unless the right guy falls to us. that would be yankey or Matthews. one hasn't declared and the other probably won't be there.:cool:
     
  9. TarheelFlyer

    TarheelFlyer Well-Known Member

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    I think an elite TE probably creates the most mismatches for a defense when you have 2 of them. Who is the blocker, who is the receiver? How do you cover them? LBs - are they fast enough. Safeties - are they physical enough? It leads to a LOT of problems.
     
  10. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Creates big problems, thats why teams are looking for these type of guys now and why teams are even looking at basketball players to convert, it's a deadly weapon to have if you can find the right guys. Not saying Ebron or Amaro can't fail at it, but they look real promising to me.
     
  11. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    well, thanks for the heads up freak. I hadn't seen that. that's my guy then. he reminds me of a young "big red" with more upside. good video of him too in there.

    most people want that sexy pick, but this line is nowhere near done yet, nor should it be. haven't we seen way too much of barely or just good enough? ben deserves to finish showing what he can do behind a GOOD line. as does bell. we have weapons in place around him, I say let's finish the job and protect our best asset finally. he will rise to his elite status with protection and can be as good as any out there.

    here is our tackle breakdown. not exactly a ringing endorsement. beachum will be fine, but beyond that we are not real good. yankey as I said will fill two roles very well. well worth a first round pick.

    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/01/steelers-2013-player-evaluations-by-position-tackles/

    :cool:
     
  12. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member Mod Team

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    Not at 15 for me... Way too many needs to be addressed IMO.
    I guess I'm in the minority but I absolutely do not want to go OL in round 1.. Unless Matthews drops to 15 LOL
     
  13. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    that's OK 58, I still have time to persuade you. LOL:lolol:

    how do you feel about coleman from Rutgers?:cool:
     
  14. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    You are gonna have to convince me too because I just have absolutely no faith in this staff being able to develop o-line talent. I say use FA for them and get a somewhat proven guy. Use the draft for guys we have a better history of molding. That's just the conclusion I have came to.
     
  15. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    if you have no faith in us developing guys, wouldn't getting a proven one be an asset then?

    decastro came along nicely as did beachum. the talent has to be there to work with. no use polishing a turd.:cool:
     
  16. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member Mod Team

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    You have some work to do mac LOL..

    I'm not big on the so called "big" receivers. I do like Coleman better than Benjamin and Bryant though. Benjamin and Bryant look like jump ball EZ receivers, Coleman has more game than those two IMO.

    The receivers I would be targeting in the 2nd-3rd would be Matthews, Moncrief and Robinson. I want a physical receiver that moves the chains. Moncrief can get deep too, I like him a lot in the 3rd.
     
  17. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I mean I think in FA we can get a guy that has done good somewhere else and it's less of a crapshoot. I just said somewhat proven because there's still a chance they might not work in our system. Also do you think it's possible that Haley's system is starting to click and that is covering some weaknesses that might still be there?
     
  18. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    of course it is. but that also limits what we do and NFL defenses will get on to it.

    if I'm right with all the endorsement I have suffered through on this site about beachum, he will improve as we move forward. he's just that type of player. the brains and drive he has , has already paid dividends. we just have nobody behind him.

    drafting and putting yankey at LG will strengthen the run game and pass protection and also give us a viable candidate with proven experience as beachums backup without wasting him on the bench. he's also one of those brains and driven type players. the Stanford connection at the guards will make this o-line one of the best out there.

    if we keep pouncey and then find a replacement for gilbert we could be set for the final championship push. I'm not ruling out embernate either as that replacement for gilbert. he played some right tackle in college and is a bit nasty.

    now isn't the time to give up on the O-line. we need 5 good starters and then we can deal with FA backup types. we saw how getting some better players on this line makes the offense so much better. I say finish the job. if ben has time , he will put the ball in the right guys hands, whether he's 5 foot tall or 7 foot tall. if bell has holes to run through, we can score with the best of them. it all starts up front.:cool:
     
  19. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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  20. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    That is a good article, and about what you'd expect from that group.
     
  21. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see some of those numbers on a couple of other guys too.:cool:
     
  22. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Benjamin is growing on me, someone had us taking him in a mock so I looked into him more and liked what I saw, like him even more after looking at those numbers, except for the drops, that's a turn off.
     
  23. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    Great article Freak. Nice find.

    I like the numbers for Evans. Low drops. Lots of deep routes. Good YAC. As the tape dictates, he is good at getting open on a busted play. This happened alot with Manziel and would surely happen with Ben. It tells me how Evans will fight to get open and to haul in the ball.

    Evans remains my #1 choice at #15.
     
  24. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I am liking me some dion bailey as a safety. probably a 2nd -3rd rounder. there is some good tape on him playing near the line like troy does and making a lot of plays being used that way. I have him as a much better fit than Clinton-dix. his field awareness is pretty darn good. he's athletic and seems like a good football smart safety. take a look if you get the time.:cool:
     
  25. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    I like Bailey. He's in my mix for a good S to take should we get a comp pick in Round 3. Give Terrence Brooks from Fla St. a look. I can definitely see some Ryan Clark in him.
     

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