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Game of Thrones, part 2??

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by steel machine, Jun 1, 2022.

  1. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    He thought he was talking to Rhaenyra (About the prophecy of the Song of Ice and Fire). The Aegon he was mentioning is Aegon the Conqueror, who had the prophetic dream.

    Since none of it made sense to Alicent, she thought he was talking about her son.

    I guess they're doing that to soften her a bit and not make her seem so power hungry when she does what she's about to do. Especially since she seemed to have made some peace with Rhaenyra and also lacked any faith in her son, Aegon, being king worthy.

    "It's a huge misunderstanding." Doesn't matter. All hell is about to break loose.
     
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  2. METALMAN_68

    METALMAN_68 Well-Known Member

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    I usually follow along pretty well but having not read the books, I do get confused from time to time. I appreciate the catch-up!
     
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  3. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Keep in mind, NONE of that is in the books. The prophecy nor Alicent hearing the King talk about Aegon. But the main book this is based on reads like a history book. Lots of details left out, and even the "writer" admitting there's no proof of this claim or that. But GRRM did say that anything that happens on this show is The"true" version of events
     
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  4. METALMAN_68

    METALMAN_68 Well-Known Member

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    Well sh!t, in that case you just pay attention better than I do, I guess!
     
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  5. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Although it has been talked about in other books also.
     
  6. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    As far as I can remember, that prophecy is new. Well, not new, but it's new that Targaryens knew about it (and specifically knew it was about them because Aegon had a dragon dream) and kept it secret. It's assumed Rhaegar found the prophecy when he was doing his bookish stuff, then immediately decided he had to be a warrior and started obsessing over his lineage. But that's 170 some odd years later. And Maester Aemon knew about it, but it was always assumed he learned it in his studies at the Citadel. Remember, there's other versions of this prophecy being spread by eastern religions (Azor Ahai).

    I don't recall Viserys ever telling (misunderstanding or not) Alicent he wanted Aegon as his heir.
     
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  7. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

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    Reading what you and S.T.D. are discussing I'm more confused than ever:huh1:
     
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  8. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    No it was mentioned in one of the five books. I don't remember where, but it talked about like You mentioned ...Rhaeger when they said He changed the way He was because of it...So ....hinted at.
     
  9. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Rhaegar was the Mad King's first born son. The one Robert Baratheon accused of abducting and raping Lyanna Stark, his betrothed. Robert killed him during the rebellion. If you recall, it turned out none of that was true, and that Lyanna had run off with Rhaegar to get married (and Jon Snow was the offspring). One of the reasons Rhagar did that was because he found prophecies written in some old books (he was an avid reader and student). We don't know the exact prophecy he found, but he was convinced it was about him and his line. He immediately decided he needed to become a great warrior and started training. And that he needed another son. But his wife, Elia, was unable to bear any more children (too weak). So he "set her aside" and ran off with Lyanna. There's even debate on that. It's possible Elia knew all about it and had agreed to a second wife. Targaryens have had multiple wives in the past, even if the practice was frowned on. The only thing that I wonder about is where the whole "The Dragon has 3 heads" thing comes from. It's not from Aegon's prophecy so far as we know from HotD.

    In fact, Dany has a vision when she's in the House of the Undying of someone who resembled her brother Viserys (but was most likely Rhaegar) talking to a young woman with dark brown hair who was holding a child and telling her "He is the Song of Ice and Fire." Presumably, that child was Jon Snow.

    Some eastern religions - like the Red Priests who worship R'hllor or the God of Light / Fire - have their own version of Aegon's prophecy. They refer to a savior of sorts known as Azor Ahai which pretty much is the same as "The Prince that was Promised." Not a translation, but the same attributes. Mellisandre was a huge believer in that prophecy, and for a time was convinced Stannis was Azor Ahai reborn.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2022
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  10. METALMAN_68

    METALMAN_68 Well-Known Member

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    Right there with ya....
     
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  11. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Do We really know Stannis is dead....I mean in the show they say He was , but not in the books.:shrug:
    Plus the person that they say killed Him in the show was a captive of Catelynn Stark along with Jamie Lannister.
    I'm having a Hell of a time matching anything from the last couple of seasons of GOTs(original show)with the books....., and make it make sense. :shrug:
    I mean Stannis sacrifices His daughter in the show, and In the books She not even with Him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2022
  12. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Show =/= books. After season 5, there's a metric crap ton of inconsistencies in the show. I wouldn't take that show as canon.
     
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  13. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

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    Couple of questions: Does the new king become the mad king they talk abt in GOT? .... 2 : Why is he called Aergon the conquer if he never conquered anything but a unwilling woman?. 3: And why didn't the woman on the dragon just destroy everything/ everyone at the end?... lol..... On a personal note .I hope they make this series last untill the start of GOT
     
  14. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    1- No. The Mad King was King Aerys Targaryen. He won't be born for another 140 years give or take.

    2- Aegon the Conqueror was the first Targaryen king. He's called the Conqueror because he literally conquered Westeros which at the time was... wait for it... 7 independent Kingdoms. Aegon conquered all of them (except Dorne, but that's a longer story) and united them into one nation. This Aegon is Aegon II. Aegon the Conqueror would have been his 6x Grandfather. Not the same person.

    3- Rhaenys didn't just burn them all right then and there because otherwise, there would be no story. ;) Joking. In truth, I'm not sure why they chose that scene like that. In the books, Rhaenys was jailed in her own room like the show. She did escape with the help of a Kingsguard like the show. And then she took her dragon and flew to Dragonstone... in the middle of the night. She was not at the coronation, nor did she have some dramatic "kill half the crowd by accident" moment. I think this was a misstep on the writer's parts. The show runners gave some explanation that Rhaenys was going to smoke them all until she saw Alicent try to protect her son, and as a mother herself, felt pity and changed her mind. <GAG> Pointless scene and trying for a tone that isn't even needed, especially with how ruthless and brutal it'll all become very quickly anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2022
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  15. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

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    :clapping::clapping: Just finished the last episode of season 1, Don't wanna spoil it but lets just say the guy with 1 eye, just stepped in some **** .. Bring on season 2
     
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  16. METALMAN_68

    METALMAN_68 Well-Known Member

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    Helluva last episode for sure!
     
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  17. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Beginning with this
    Last Episode, whatever hope there was for peace is gone.
    Once Aemond did what he did
    Over Shipbreaker's Bay by
    Dualing Vhagar against the much smaller Arax, regardless of intention.

    Aemond has set into motion
    Nothing less than all out War.
    Daemon will not let this pass. He'll vow revenge.

    Certainly even the Greens will be shocked and appalled.
    Had Aemond left well enough alone
    Everyone may have cooled down and found a solution
    Expect major reprisals that will
    Send both Greens and Blacks into a spiral of
    Even more brutal acts.

    Yeah. I was having a little fun with that. If you see the message, know that it is a HUGE spoiler, so don't go looking it up. Seriously. It would be akin to looking it up in advance when everyone talked about a "Red Wedding" in Game of Thrones. What I can say is if you thought Daemon was the personification of "F@#! around and find out," you haven't seen anything yet. The young, mostly good intentioned Rhaenyra is gone. Hell hath no fury.

    Meanwhile, Aemond can't exactly play the innocent card. Accident or not, no one will believe him. In the books, it's assumed he very much meant to do that either out of petty revenge, or to strike the first blow in what seemed an inevitable war. He's stuck. Either he has to admit he doesn't have control over his dragon and look weak, or lean into it and embrace being the bad guy. No choice there, really. I still don't know how they expect to squeeze 4 seasons out of this story, 3 seems reasonable. But now the real story begins.

    I saw someone explain it very nicely like this: In this story, you may have your favorite side, or character, but what you're really doing is picking which war criminal you like most. :roflmao:

    It's going to be a long wait for season 2. In the meantime, I am really curious how they'll cast some important characters going forward, especially Cregan MFing Stark. The book never really mentioned his age as far as I can remember, but Rhaenyra did tell Jace that he's closer to his age than hers. Since Jace is roughly 17 and Rhaenyra pushing 40, they'll need to cast someone a bit younger for Cregan. Late 20s at most, or passing. So all the rumors of Henry Cavil (please, God, no) are probably wishful thinking. But even as a youngish man, Cregan is someone not to be messed with, so they need to get the casting right. I really don't know who I'd pick yet. Another popular fan casting is Alexander Dreymon. I admit, he would embody Cregan (better than Cavil especially), but he's also pushing 40. He can pass for early 30s, but not mid 20s. I still wouldn't be against it. The other problem is that although we'll meet Cregan next season, he really doesn't make an impact until near the end of the war unless they change the story up a bit. But I hope they don't have him leading the Winter Wolves. It would kind of diminish the whole point of them.

    And there is a third Targaryan son to Alicent, Daeron. IDK why he wasn't included with this season, except he really doesn't do much until after the war starts. Right now, he'd be studying at the Citadel. So I expect he'll be added next season. Odd they never even mentioned his existence at least. And Haelena and Aegon have a 3rd child. They only ever show the twins. Maybe they'll have a 1-2 year time jump between seasons?
     
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  18. METALMAN_68

    METALMAN_68 Well-Known Member

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    My question about the dragon scene with Aemond, and it's kind of a pointless one, is how would anyone really know what happened? We're to just assume that Daemon found out about it somehow or was that addressed more in the book?
     
  19. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    In the book, the dragon fight is described a little differently. People on the ground witnessed multiple fire blasts in the sky.

    Either way, the dragon's broken body washed up on shore a day or 2 later. Some accounts said Luce's did too and that Aemond cut out his eyes and presented them to his Baratheon betrothed. (even the Maester writing the history doubts that account). Others say he was never found.
     
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  20. METALMAN_68

    METALMAN_68 Well-Known Member

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    Right on, thanks!
     
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  21. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

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    Kinda confused who the the Greens and Blacks are, are they the the colors of the Banners for the two families, or something else? So Halelena is the queens daughter? I have read spoilers on FB and if if they are true, some are prty ruthless
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
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  22. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    The Greens refers to the House Hightower faction of the Targaryens. Otto, Alicent and her children/ grandchildren. House Hightower is often associated with the color green due to House colors and when they call their banners for war, they turn the flame of their lighthouse green.

    The Blacks are those loyal to Rhaenyra. Black and Red are the traditional Targaryen colors.

    Yes, Haelena is Alicent's daughter as well as sister/wife of Aegon II.

    Because you asked about her, I'm assuming you saw about the cryptic spoiler I teased in my first post after the finale. Yes. Let's not repeat it. Yes, it's horrible. And it's not even as bad as it can get.
     
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  23. METALMAN_68

    METALMAN_68 Well-Known Member

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    Ditto
     
  24. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Well I haven't watched the whole season yet(only 3 episodes) so I can't really say, but in the books this kinda of thing is explained....so if they are not doing it in the show(which I don't know if they are) they are failing the audience.
     
  25. METALMAN_68

    METALMAN_68 Well-Known Member

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    I believe they did address it earlier in the season, I just forgot. @Ray D cleared it up for me.
     
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