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Game of Thrones (HBO) - Time to jump on board

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Ray D, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    Well, the dialog isn't the greatest as it is. They would have had to really hire some writers to tie it all together more elegantly. Ultimately they didn't sign on to do what they are doing now. They thought they would have the books to adapt and they don't. So it's essentially fan fiction with a lot of nods to book-readers on overdrive at this point.
     
  2. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    To be fair, there ARE budget concerns as well. The last 2 seasons were going to be much heavier on SFX and CGI than they ever were (Dany's attack on the Lannister supply train probably almost matched season 1 as a whole). Add to that that all of the major character actors got a pay raise that was over double per episode.

    It stands to reason that there are quite a few massive scenes coming (that GRRM probably even told them about loosely). I mean, just think about the great scenes from A Clash of Kings (Blackwater) and A Storm of Swords. A few were so massive, the show couldn't even come close to portraying them. And that's all in the first act of the overall story! We're on to the finale here. I expect next season to be on par with a summer blockbuster. Think about how much they cost to make. (and if it's not, I'll whine as well. LOL)

    But if it's all spectacle with poor story, it loses anything the books represented.
     
  3. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    Yeah, I can't imagine how much cost per episode has gone up this season. The CGI is heavy and on point, and the overall production quality is higher IMO. I have mixed emotions about the show lately in general. As a book reader, I know that a good deal of what we're seeing is going to happen, and that kind of sucks for me (Hold the door!). As a fan in general, I'm geeking out for the most part and enjoying the ride, even if much of it might be condensed fan fiction.

    Next week's episode was leaked accidentally by HBO. It is available on most of the usual torrent outlets, for those interested in such things.
     
  4. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    In thinking about the economics further, one thing that hadn't occurred to me that should have is that there is minimal incremental revenue for HBO from having more episodes. So, I get why they may want to start cramming more stuff into each episode. The money they're getting from me isn't going to change if they do 10 episodes instead of 7, and when they sell the season blu ray boxed sets they will probably cost exactly the same for the 7 episode seasons.

    I'm still loving it, even if it could be better.

    One last note: "Raven" = Westerosi for "Fed-Ex"
     
  5. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    Except the Ravens don't seem to get lost
     
  6. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    And don't deliver the goods soaked in fabric softener because someone else's delivery was damaged.

    So, I watched the leaked episode. I never said I was a good person. :blush:
     
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  7. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    I saw it on one of my main torrent sites and thought about it but then stopped myself because tomorrow will be an awesome day of football and GOT .
     
  8. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    I normally wouldn't, but I couldn't resist. The image and sound quality were surprisingly good. :)
     
  9. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    mentioned it to the wife while we had the kids at the pool swimming and so yeah downloaded it and she is watching it now lol. so, so much for waiting lol
     
  10. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    :lolol:

    Enjoy!
     
  11. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Wow.... just wow. I'm going to need to digest what I just saw, and see how next week ties up the season to know how I feel, but right now I'm feeling like my favorite TV show may have just jumped the %^*+ing shark. I had forgiven some of the timeline stuff before, but now apparently ravens are no longer Fed Ex, they're sattelite phones. And either dragons are SR71 blackbirds, or Dragonstone is just a few miles from the wall.

    The is the first time I've left a GOT episode completely pissed off. Maybe I'll get over it after a bit of reflection, but for now.... wow, just frickin wow....
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Yeah, very poor writing. Jetpacks I can forgive to a point, but this is absolutely ridiculous. They were several days walk into the north (well, well past the tree line), and Gendry can run it in a few hours or so?!?!? (Even run for hours in severe cold to begin with)

    Ravens fly at Mach 3? How the hell do they get to Dany overnight? And Dany makes it to them that very afternoon? I'll grant that dragons can probably fly fast, but NOT Jetliner fast. Come on! (And if they could, there's zero way Dany doesn't fall off... or FREEZE TO DEATH).

    They really are just phoning it in now. Yes, the battle sequence was cool. Yes, the loss of a dragon was a gut punch. And the raising of Viserion as a wight dragon was chilling (say goodbye, Wall). But the timing was absolutely FUBAR. This was a sequence that needed to play out over a couple episodes. Not crammed into half of one, time line be damned.

    It's 1000 leagues from the Wall to King's Landing. That's a tad over 3000 miles. Dragonstone is maybe 150 miles north of King's Landing. I can suspend disbelief, but this is asking WAY too much. What's worse is they all got in slow ships (which would take weeks to reach King's Landing), but they'll get there seemingly overnight again. Even if we assume it took them a realistic time, the Army of the Dead (now with their own Dragon) will just... wait around???

    The dialogue was good. The events were great. But this just ruins all of it.
     
  13. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Agree 100%. The events were great, but the writers utterly ruined it with the stupidity of the timeline just for the sake of having a dramatic rescue. I don't think there's any way they could have reasonably done the rescue until Dany was already at the wall for some reason other than the rescue, so they should have gone a different route to set up that kind of battle.

    On another note - I think Arya was trying to tell Sansa "let me go to Kings Landing as you," but she went too far down the road of scaring the s*** out of Sansa. We'll see if they set up a Arya as Sansa situation next week. I hope so.
     
  14. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    Well, yes, but Sansa has to die to get her face...
     
  15. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Oh, I didn't know that.
     
  16. niterider

    niterider Well-Known Member

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    Let me help ease the pain. Even though it seemed that way, Jon's crew wasn't held up over night. In fact, you can reasonably expect 5 or 6 days for ice to freeze over enough to bear the weight of an army. It was a waiting game at this point and the Night King had an eternity at his disposal. By the end, Jon's crew looked like they were barely hanging on. Then consider this: If the average GOT raven flies at 25 mph, it could reach Dragonstone in 4 days, and it could reasonably take a dragon a day to reach the wall if you assume dragons can fly 100+ mph.
     
  17. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    At 100 mph, assuming nonstop flight, it would still take Dany 28 hours give or take to reach them.

    And you expect us to believe they lasted 5-6 days - sedentary - in freezing cold with no shelter, heat, food or water?!?!?! And still be able to walk much less fight???? They looked more bored and frustrated than "barely hanging on."

    Even assuming they had enough food (and especially water), the elements take them out easily. And even this timeline assumes the ravens can fly without rest nonstop. Need we mention Daenarys has no saddle or secure attachment to Drogon, and can somehow hold on at high speeds (and wind chill doesn't exist)?

    And Gendry, who is nowhere near acclimated to the cold nor probably ran more than a few hundred yards at a time in his life suddenly becomes Pheidippides?

    The Night King has an EASY shot at a stationary Drogon who's also much closer, but decides to go after Viserion instead?

    It was a rush job. Period. These events could have played out much cleaner. I love the story. Even despite the fact that the books are far better fleshed out (which is not the show's fault. I get that certain things need to be condensed or altered). But certain things just can't be overlooked.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    OK, I can finally talk about this. I don't have a problem with jetpacks when it's necessary for the purpose of storytelling (Jaime finishes a battle days away and is in King's Landing the next scene talking to Cersei). I do have a problem with jetpacks when they're used to force a convenient story twist (Dragons fly through a wormhole to arrive in the nick of time to save the day). Also, while I enjoyed much of that sequence, please don't play the 'dragons rush off to save the day in the nick of time' card again.

    Yay! Benjen's alive! We finally get to hear his story...I've been hoping he and Jon would reunite and... oh.

    Ice Dragon is going to be awesome to see.
     
  19. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Sorry, Benjen makes too much money, so we're only bringing him back for a cameo. If you want to hear his story, wait until the next book finally comes out in around 2024.
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  20. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    Betting he's one of the spin off's...
     
  21. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    Here's my problem with your stance on the ravens etc.. You(we) have suspended belief and accepted fire breathing dragons, stone people, an undead army, multiple people being resurrected from the dead... , but suddenly get bent over how fast the ravens or dragons travel. It's almost as if people are looking for something to complain about instead of just suspending belief and enjoying a fantasy television show.
     
  22. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    We can just agree to disagree on this. The thing is, there are ways that they could have done it to eliminate the whole teleporting ravens and Mach 3 dragons thing. They could have had Dany have a premonition of the upcoming battle and leave a few days before it even happened, maybe by having Melisandre come back and show her a believable fire vision of how Jon is the warrior of light in prophecy, and needs saving. Even foreshadow the loss of Viserion by saying something like "there will be a great price." Another thing they could have done was have the besieged rock outcropping be a bit more - maybe a ruined outpost where they could shelter and have a fire, then introduce some dialogue to show the passage of time like "we only have 8 days of food, the NK will just wait us out", then "we're out of food" (to show the passage of several days of the siege). I'm sure there are plenty of ways that they could have tied that up, but the writers were lazy IMO. I saw quotes from one of them who admitted that they knew the timeline made no sense, but the essence of his thoughts were "so what, the show is a success." So, not just lazy, lazy and arrogant. I'm not looking for something to complain about, that something was thrown at me with a "so what? Deal with it" by the writers.

    I'll still watch it, and I'm sure most other fans will as well. However, I'm not as enthused about it as I once was. It could have been better with just a little more effort. Again, we'll just need to agree to disagree. We're not going to change each other's views.
     
  23. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Suspension of disbelief means accepting that the rules are different in the world a story takes place. BUT the rules of that world have to be consistent. Men can only walk or run so far and so fast, birds fly at normal speed, etc etc. The story long ago established how large the continent of Westeros is, and how the long distances take a long time for travel and communication. They just threw all of that out the window for the sake of a shortcut. It would have been better if they had Dany travel to the Wall with them and wait there. Then have a few horses for Gendry to ride back on one (which would still have taken most of a day). Boom. Timeline believable.
     
  24. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, but if they had sent Dany to the wall book readers would have complained about that as well.
     
  25. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    I'm one of those "book snobs." I wouldn't have a problem with it. After all, we're on uncharted ground.

    No. I save my nit picking for characters acting out of character, and pushing stories that don't makes sense for one reason or another. I'm not sure why anyone would think Dany going to the Wall would be out of line.

    (LOL. When Dany announced herself to the Lannister Army as "Daenarys Stormborn of House Targaryan, First of her name..." I shouted out "SECOND! SECOND OF HER NAME! DO THEY EVEN READ?!?!" That's nit picking. ;))
     

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