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Game of Thrones (HBO) - Time to jump on board

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Ray D, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Even before D&D announced GRRM told them about Hodor's origin, I knew it must be true. Frankly, they're not bright enough to come up with that twist on their own. ;) A lot of stuff they're doing obviously won't, or can't happen in the books. But certain key events must match up for the end result to be the same. This was one of them. I'm sure it won't be the last.

    Others have speculated as well that Bran may in fact be "Bran the Builder" and other Brans. I won't rule it out yet.
     
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  2. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Love that 3 minute Kingsmoot :thumbs up:

    I was checking in often to see Ray's reaction, because I knew it would be a doozie. That episode delivered a great series moment (hold the door), and some pure garbage (the Iron Islands - "Urine" lol!). I enjoyed Arya's sequence at the play. Definitely not "nobody." I also like the new Sansa. I guess it took a personal tragedy that affected her even more than having half her family murdered to finally drive the emptiness out from between her ears. Did Balish underestimate her, or was barely getting out of Molestown alive part of the plan?
     
  3. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    Would it have been too hard to have him more like the description in the books?

    Would it have been hard to have him roll in and bribe the captains with treasures?

    Would it have been hard to film a little more than 20 guys standing around yelling "Yara!" and then "URINE!"? After some um-impassioned speech?

    Sansa not trusting the one person whom she's bound by blood too? Grew up with? Falling for Balishes trap to try and get the Riverrun forces committed to wipe them out?
     
  4. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I guess I've forgotten too much of the books. Riverrun is committed to wiping the Starks out? It's probably a good thing I don't remember many of the books' details though, because I'm less ticked off when the TV series strays because half the time I don't notice...
     
  5. vasteeler

    vasteeler Well-Known Member

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    psh...try to do both at the same time. very confusing. i have one more book to read and have decided to wait until i am finished before i start watching the rest of this season
     
  6. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    No I guess it may be a minor spoiler, but it can't be since we don't know what comes next.

    But, it looks to me that Balish is trying to get as many people fighting so he can come in and control things with his fresh troops. Wasn't that his original plan with Cersei to sweep in and take over after Stanis and the Boltons had their mega fight at Winterfell? So now that it wasn't a huge fight, but instead a rout, it looks like he needs someone else to swing in and soften them up. Also, if he gets forces out of Riverrun, then the Frey's and Lanisters can sweep back in and retake it.....just a thought.
     
  7. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    Wow! Really? You took us through all that tripe with Dorne just so you could send Jamie where he was supposed to go anyway?
     
  8. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Right?

    What's worse is that he's still Team Cersei! :facepalm: They took all of his very good character progression (both books AND first 3 seasons of the show) and acted like it never happened. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

    If Jaime finally washing his hands of Cersei or even outright going against her is essential to the overall plot and/or endgame (and it appears it is as the books go out of their way to show this), then I can't wait to see what lame or unnecessarily off book way the show gets this done. Yes. Your sarcasm detection meter should be red lining.

    So Sam was a day away from port 3 episodes ago. And it took him 3 times as long to get to Horn Hill (a distance of maybe 250 miles from the nearest major port. Probably less) as it took Littlefinger to travel almost 1000 miles??? And why the hell is Little Sam still an infant? That kid should be in college by now!!! (Ok. Slight exaggeration)

    Gilly cleans up very nicely. Randyl Tarly is exactly the prick I expected him to be. But I'm puzzled why he's at home and not, you know, commanding his army somewhere useful. Not sure where they're going with Sam stealing the sword. I mean, I get why he might want it. But there's no book reason (nor opportunity) for it. And it's not like Randyl would just let that slide.

    Was there a point to ANYTHING they did with Dany this episode? It was just rehashing what ALREADY HAPPENED! The Dothraki swore their allegiance to her 2 weeks ago. Why the need for the big speech and cheers?! Oh... they ever so cleverly mentioned in passing her need for "1000 ships." And we know who wants to bring her that many. Yes. "Cleverly" was also sarcasm.

    Something tells me they just went off the rails with Arya's story, or finally cut to the chase. My guess is she'll get away from or kill the waif. And then join the acting troupe. They'll head to Westeros where she'll get a chance to cross off a name from her list. Who, where, and how are the only questions.

    They're also heading way off the rails with the High Sparrow and Faith of the Seven. I feel another monster edit / shortcut coming there. Why would anyone want fine gourmet cuisine when they can get McDonald's??? Ugh...

    Nice to see you again, Benjen! But that only creates more questions. I don't know, and I don't CARE if D&D proclaimed him to be Coldhands. He's NOT! GRRM emphatically stated that years ago. And we never got Coldhands at all where he would have normally been introduced. So this is something new. I don't know if this is leading up to a book event, or similar events, or if D&D are making this part up and giving a little fan service.

    See you next week for Fan Fiction of Thrones.
     
  9. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    I guess the point was "Look! He's still growing!"

    The Sparrows suffer from no background in the first three seasons. All they had to do was introduce some dialog at various times between the council about "reports" on religious activities or a movement underway. That would frame what the "High Sparrow" is doing nicely, since we don't know what his plan is in the books either. The Shock value insta-murderous zealots they gave us doesn't fit the popular movement quite the same.

    I think the correspondence GRRM doesn't say he isn't Benjen. He just says "No" to a question about "Is that why he's hiding his face and Bran doesn't recognise him?"
     
  10. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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    Am I the only one who looks forward to Ray's after-show post more than the show itself? :D
     
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  11. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    The thing is, he was answering his editor. Not some random fan with a theory question. The editor pointedly asked if Coldhands was Benjen. And he answered NO in bold letters. He went on later during a Q&A (after that little correspondence became public) to elaborate that Coldhands has been "dead" for far longer than Benjen has been missing.

    That's not to say that a similar thing couldn't have happened to Benjen. Maybe he planned on it. Maybe we'll never see Benjen again. Maybe Benjen is still a perfectly healthy normal human being and shows up again. We'll have to wait and see.

    When Coldhands first showed up, I immediately began wondering if he was Benjen. It's natural to suspect that. But what little we know of him doesn't add up.
     
  12. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    Oh I'm with you on that. I can't find it and maybe I'm losing my mind, but didn't they show Coldhands in the show at some point? I could have sworn he helped Sam and Gilly at one point as they were headed south. .
     
  13. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    No. Never happened on the show. The only thing they kept from the books in that area was the huge flock of ravens.
     
  14. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    I guess I did it so vividly when I read it that I just transposed it. Would it have been so hard to throw that in there for show watchers? Or have him actually on an elk?

    There are some really cool set pieces that could be dropped in the show that they seem to brush over for a nude scene or a penis joke.
     
  15. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Funny thing... I remember Cold Hands making an earlier appearance as well. If I didn't know that Ray dissects GOT episodes like the Zapruder Film, I'd swear that he was wrong on this point.
     
  16. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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    This was the first appearance of Cold Hands in the show as far as I know. They sort of teased it when Bran, Hodor and Meera were in the Nightfort. Bran was telling the story of the Rat Cook. They get scared when Sam and Gilly came up through the well.
     
  17. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    See there's the problem.

    Those of us that read the books have him as such an important character, that many of us have thought he was somehow in the show prior to this.

    You read the books and see him as being very important to Bran getting to his location. And it adds to the mysteries of North of the wall.

    I went back to where I thought he had helped Sam and Gilly and didn't see anything. I may go back and check the deleted scenes from season 3. I could have sworn he helped Sam prior to them meeting Bran at the Night fort, but you guys are correct that he wasn't there.
     
  18. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Before I even figure out where to start this week, I just have one question: When did everyone in the show get pants on head stupid??? But we'll come back to that.

    Gravedigger confirmed! Not that I really had any doubt. GRRM left a breadcrumb trail Stevie Wonder could follow in the last book about Sandor Clegane. Ok, so on the show he's chopping wood instead of digging graves. And it's not the Quiet Isle. And the leader of whatever commune this is isn't even really a firm believer in the Seven. And there's no mention whatsoever of the purpose of this commune other than "feels." And there's further no mention of a purpose to save the minds and souls of men broken (mentally and spiritually) by war. And.... wait? Is this the same story??? Ok, maybe that's a tad unfair. He's preaching about turning one's life around and not letting the bad things in your past define you. Still doesn't quite ring the way the books did.

    Ian McShane as awesome as always. I'm sad we only got him for one episode. I'll see you soon on "American Gods," Ian. Looking forward to that show. Just a shame they couldn't give him the speech from the book. It might be the best passage in all of the books. And Ian would have delivered it in such a way as to rival Captain Quint's Indianapolis story in Jaws. But nope. D&D just can't help themselves and have to change ruin everything. The character Ian plays is loosely based on Septon Meribald. It's lengthy, so I won't quote it. But here's a link to his speech if you're not familiar:

    http://genius.com/George-r-r-martin-a-feast-for-crows-brienne-v-broken-men-speech-annotated

    So not only does Lady Stoneheart not exist, but the Brotherhood Without Banners went from honorable protectors of the people to thugs and thieves in what can only be a year or 2? You know: the very same type of people they SWORE THEIR LIVES to defend the people from?! LOL. They quote the motto of the followers of the Red God which implies Thoros is still a leader with them, and I'm supposed to believe this nonsense? Yes, they get a bit rough in the books too, but only against a certain, er, "type" of person <cough>a particular family name<cough> and those associated with them. And Beric Dondarion is replaced by a vengeful, possibly psychotic or even borderline evil figure who's mere presence they see as a miracle, so they're blind followers. (And their cause is still just if viewed through the right lens).

    What kind of engines do NotAsha and Theon have on their boats?!?! Even with a good wind, Volantis is a month long journey!

    I did love Lyanna Mormont.

    For what reason is Sansa hiding info about Littlefinger from Jon? And now she's asking him for his army after all, but still won't tell him? I'm not Han Solo, but I have a bad feeling about this.

    Spoiler alert: In the books, Jaime resolves the siege at River Run peacefully. The Blackfish got away and is somewhere out there. Edmure is alive and well and a "guest" at Casterly Rock. I only mention all of that because I can smell D&D :roflmao:improving:roflmao: on that story... (They seem hell bent on wiping out all of Jaime's character progression). Was still a good scene with Jaime taking control. Nice to see Bronn as well.

    Arya, Arya, Arya flipping kidding me? You've been training with assassins for over a year. Assassins you know approach their victims in disguise. You also know you're marked for death because you failed in your task and they don't just let you leave. And you just let some random old woman approach you with your guard down? Arya is supposed to be smart. WTF? Of course she'll survive, but that isn't the point. But since we're on that question, what "world class" assassin just randomly slashes at someone's stomach (light cut if it even broke the skin) and when they have the chance to go for the kill with the victim pinned, stabs at a non-fatal area??? Sure, a gut wound can be fatal, especially without modern medicine. But a slit throat or heart stab were there for the easy pickings.

    But put Arya AND the waif up on a long list of characters who just do dumb things to push the story in the direction those "LOLBest Writing" show runners want to short cut to. All of Dorne. Littlefinger. Jaime Lannister - the Commander of the King's Guard who not only doesn't know where the King is, he doesn't even know where his other guards are!!! Sansa not communicating vital info with Jon... I'll just stop there. I'm going to give myself a migraine.

    Edited to add: Ok, there's several theories out there. Most are of the tin foil hat variety. But there's one I find intriguing, and it would actually make sense, be pretty awesome - and all would be forgiven for this scene. That theory being...

    That wasn't Arya. Think about it. The last time we see her, she's hiding, clutching Needle, and afraid of what's to come. She knows she failed. And she knows they'll be coming for her. The next time we see her, she's just strolling around a major trade district, bold as you please? Putting off the very air of Westerosi nobility she's been trying to hide? Calling attention on herself by throwing around sacks of gold? And where did she get THAT MUCH gold? And also the aforementioned "stupidity" of allowing a stranger to approach her I talked about above.

    What if it isn't Arya being tested, but the waif? She's cruel. A little too eager to kill. Has a grudge against Arya and all too pleased to go after her. The Kindly Man / Jaqen - if indeed that's who he even really is - explicitly instructs the waif NOT to let Arya suffer. And the waif goes for stabbing her in the stomach, even twisting the knife. Someone who dies from a gut wound dies horribly and in agony. The waif wanted her to suffer. She also took off her face so "Arya" knew who it was who stabbed her. Another no no.

    But the problem for the waif is that it isn't Arya. It's Jaqen using her face, or another Faceless Man. And she has utterly failed her test. We see Arya in next week's preview sprinting and jumping. Awful hard to do that with a serious gut wound.

    I would be tickled if it's something along these lines.


    Still holding out hope this all has a point.

    But to end on a hopeful note: The Hound lives! And for those in the know... :rawk:GET HYPE!!!:rawk: ;)

    What is hype may never die.

    The Night is dark and full of hype.

    Hype is coming. :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  19. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    Heard that theory as well...might actually have some teeth to it now that I've marinated on it. Only problem is why does he sacrifice himself, when he can obviously best the waif and punish her for not fulfilling her obligations.?
     
  20. niterider

    niterider Well-Known Member

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    I like that theory and it would fit nicely into Arya's character. I hope it's true.

    I knew we were in for a nice surprise with a cold open. If I recall correctly, there has been only 3 other times where they went with a cold open and they were all season premiers. Anyone else notice that a slow instrumental version of the opening credits were playing during that scene? It was a nice touch.

    I read that the director of the episode "Hardhome" is also directing ep. 9 & 10. We should be in for a thriller!
     
  21. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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    Get Hype! Cleganebowl!!
     
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  22. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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    I like the Arya theory and I think it has teeth. I'm tempted to fast forward through any scene with an Iron Islander.
     
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  23. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Yeah, as the season ending cliffhanger. Who wins? Find out next year!
     
  24. niterider

    niterider Well-Known Member

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    First the walking dead, now this. They better not pull that crap.
     
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  25. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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    I can see it already. They'll have an epic duel, and both of them will be seriously wounded. While swords still clang, the screen will go black as the audio continues. You'll hear a battle cry and what sounds like a head getting lopped off followed by a large body falling to the ground. Someone will yell "Clegane is dead!!" just as the credits begin.

    :whistley:
     

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