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Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new job

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by bigsteelerfaninky, Nov 17, 2011.

  1. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    And when the police are part of the problem?

    This WAS REPORTED TO THE POLICE. Even by Joe Paterno.

    Why can't people get that through their heads? The PSU Campus police ARE THE COPS. They are a real police force and have jurisdiction in Happy Valley. They are not rent-a-cops.

    Now, Joe should have done more. Everyone should have. But what could he have done? It's easy to point fingers, but really... what more could he have done? "Hey, why hasn't there been an arrest yet?" "We,re investigating and can't talk about it." What then? It's a tragedy all around. I have no problem with his being fired over this. But I'm tired of all of the scorn and character assassination.

    Now, if it comes out that he was actively part of a coverup? Crucify him. But there's no evidence of that at all.
     
  2. Cru Jones

    Cru Jones Well-Known Member

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    Oct 19, 2011
    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new


    Really?? Seems odd, that this whole Penn stgate mess is about sandusky doing something and it didn't get reported to the police by members of the Penn State staff.

    Since you know it was in fact reported, then ...

    Why have those same PSU Campus police denied it was ever reported to them , even after McQueary email came out saying he did? http://abcnews.go.com/US/penn-state-pol ... d=14967796

    Or why were Curley & Schultz arrested and charged for failing to have this reported, if in fact it was reported?

    Or why would Paterno only said he reported it to Curley , who then told Schults. And never has been on record stating he (Paterno) reported this to PSU campus police or any other police force?
     
  3. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    You made this claim the other day and I am not so sure about it. From comments made by other Steelers fans on the old board about Penn State and some of the players both current and former is sounds like there is more going on there than is made public in the media. If even half of it is true with the drinking partying and wild life that some have described I think that Joe had really begun to lose touch with his players and the young people in general. Wasn't two years ago that they had some of the seniors who did something that didn't sit well with Joe so he made the whole team clean the stadium after a game for the charity that was suppose to do it. At 74 I don't know how much influence he had over his players beyond the football field now at 84 I really think there was a disconnect as well. Again since I live some 1100 or more miles away so I can't speak for Penn State. I do live in a college town where hockey players are treated like gods and can be busted for underage drinking and arrested for being minors in a bar and they can claim they are innocent and be released because we need them to compete for a title.[/quote:25wjcbst]

    I was listening to a report by Kim Jones on the Fan who has a very close relationship with the Paternos, she actually gained access to their house when this story broke and everything was chaos. And even if he didn't hold as much power as he used to, I'm sure he still did back in 98'.
     
  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    He didn't report anything to police, only his superiors. And campus police do not hold as much power as a regular police force. They were just covering this on the Fan the other day. The campus police still take orders from the head of the university. And even if Paterno did report it to police and didn't get any where then you call the FBI. What you don't do is watch a pedo walk around with kids for 10+ years. And you don't allow him to continue to run a charity for kids.
     
  5. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    He didn't report anything to police, only his superiors. And campus police do not hold as much power as a regular police force. They were just covering this on the Fan the other day. The campus police still take orders from the head of the university. And even if Paterno did report it to police and didn't get any where then you call the FBI. What you don't do is watch a pedo walk around with kids for 10+ years. And you don't allow him to continue to run a charity for kids.[/quote:3j8cbpie]

    One of those "superiors" was the Head of Campus police. And that guy was also the vice president of something or other. (It was also reported to the school AD) If you reported it to the HEAD of the campus police, it's safe to assume a report should have been filed.

    If one wasn't, well, the former head of campus police is already under charges of perjury, so... yeah.

    He could have and should have done more. nobody is disputing that. That's why he was fired, and I do not disagree with the decision to fire him. But I'm also saying to look at it from all sides. You report something to someone in CHARGE of school security and your boss. You'd expect something to get done. Maybe he did ask questions after nothing was being done. WE DON'T KNOW. Maybe his answer was "we didn't find any proof." Maybe they told him "We're investigating and we can't discuss it." Again, WE DON'T KNOW.

    JoePA was somewhat negligent. Even he admits that. But until there's one iota of proof, I'm tired of people acting like he was part of some grande conspiracy to cover it up. Let's start putting the focus where it belongs. Sandusky himself, obviously. And the AD and Head of Campus police.

    Speaking of the Head of Campus police, the 2002 incident in question was the SECOND time Sandusky was reported to him for suspect behavior with children. He swept the first one under the rug. And it's reasonable to assume that he covered up the second too.
     
  6. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    t's a fact that Joe Paterno notified both the AD and the head of campus police. It's been reported that way since the day the story broke.

    Excellent question. Now you know where to point the finger. If the HEAD of the department was notified, yet they heard nothing, what does that tell you? ;)

    Just spit balling here. Because it was THEY who it was reported to, yet they did nothing?

    This would be news to me. Every report I saw said he reported it to both of them. Then again, I started drowning this stuff out once the witch hunt began. People just want blood. Not truth. Frankly, the truth may be more painful, but I'm waiting for the investigation to conclude.
     
  7. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Oct 16, 2011
    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    He didn't report anything to police, only his superiors. And campus police do not hold as much power as a regular police force. They were just covering this on the Fan the other day. The campus police still take orders from the head of the university. And even if Paterno did report it to police and didn't get any where then you call the FBI. What you don't do is watch a pedo walk around with kids for 10+ years. And you don't allow him to continue to run a charity for kids.[/quote:2z7rmbvv]

    One of those "superiors" was the Head of Campus police. And that guy was also the vice president of something or other. (It was also reported to the school AD) If you reported it to the HEAD of the campus police, it's safe to assume a report should have been filed.

    If one wasn't, well, the former head of campus police is already under charges of perjury, so... yeah.

    He could have and should have done more. nobody is disputing that. That's why he was fired, and I do not disagree with the decision to fire him. But I'm also saying to look at it from all sides. You report something to someone in CHARGE of school security and your boss. You'd expect something to get done. Maybe he did ask questions after nothing was being done. WE DON'T KNOW. Maybe his answer was "we didn't find any proof." Maybe they told him "We're investigating and we can't discuss it." Again, WE DON'T KNOW.

    JoePA was somewhat negligent. Even he admits that. But until there's one iota of proof, I'm tired of people acting like he was part of some grande conspiracy to cover it up. Let's start putting the focus where it belongs. Sandusky himself, obviously. And the AD and Head of Campus police.

    Speaking of the Head of Campus police, the 2002 incident in question was the SECOND time Sandusky was reported to him for suspect behavior with children. He swept the first one under the rug. And it's reasonable to assume that he covered up the second too.[/quote:2z7rmbvv]

    I think you may be mistaken on Paterno reporting it to campus police. I don't remember seeing that in the grand jury report, in fact I thought I remembered it saying no police were ever informed. Unless they don't consider campus police a real police force.

    I think you and I are pretty much on the same page. I just hold Paterno more accountable then you do. I think he knew exactly what was going on, I think many people did, not just Paterno. I think they all tried to sweep it under the rug, it's the only explanation that makes sense to me. I might be willing to believe that after the 98' report that they may not be sure if the accusations were true but once McQueary saw it with his own eyes then they all knew what they were dealing with.
     
  8. Myronwemissyinz

    Myronwemissyinz

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    Oct 17, 2011
    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    JMO.....JoePa gave the board no choice....They had to let them go!!
     
  9. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    Oct 23, 2011
    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    That's not an issue. "They" have been trying to get him out for quite a few years now. "They" now had the "Moral" high ground to drown out his supporters.
     
  10. RobVos

    RobVos Well-Known Member

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    Oct 16, 2011
    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    He didn't report anything to police, only his superiors. And campus police do not hold as much power as a regular police force. They were just covering this on the Fan the other day. The campus police still take orders from the head of the university. And even if Paterno did report it to police and didn't get any where then you call the FBI. What you don't do is watch a pedo walk around with kids for 10+ years. And you don't allow him to continue to run a charity for kids.[/quote:2b60pq5i]

    One of those "superiors" was the Head of Campus police. And that guy was also the vice president of something or other. (It was also reported to the school AD) If you reported it to the HEAD of the campus police, it's safe to assume a report should have been filed.

    If one wasn't, well, the former head of campus police is already under charges of perjury, so... yeah.

    He could have and should have done more. nobody is disputing that. That's why he was fired, and I do not disagree with the decision to fire him. But I'm also saying to look at it from all sides. You report something to someone in CHARGE of school security and your boss. You'd expect something to get done. Maybe he did ask questions after nothing was being done. WE DON'T KNOW. Maybe his answer was "we didn't find any proof." Maybe they told him "We're investigating and we can't discuss it." Again, WE DON'T KNOW.

    JoePA was somewhat negligent. Even he admits that. But until there's one iota of proof, I'm tired of people acting like he was part of some grande conspiracy to cover it up. Let's start putting the focus where it belongs. Sandusky himself, obviously. And the AD and Head of Campus police.

    Speaking of the Head of Campus police, the 2002 incident in question was the SECOND time Sandusky was reported to him for suspect behavior with children. He swept the first one under the rug. And it's reasonable to assume that he covered up the second too.[/quote:2b60pq5i]

    I think you may be mistaken on Paterno reporting it to campus police. I don't remember seeing that in the grand jury report, in fact I thought I remembered it saying no police were ever informed. Unless they don't consider campus police a real police force.

    I think you and I are pretty much on the same page. I just hold Paterno more accountable then you do. I think he knew exactly what was going on, I think many people did, not just Paterno. I think they all tried to sweep it under the rug, it's the only explanation that makes sense to me. I might be willing to believe that after the 98' report that they may not be sure if the accusations were true but once McQueary saw it with his own eyes then they all knew what they were dealing with.[/quote:2b60pq5i]

    You need to take into account that a Grand Jury report is by nature only to find damning items, not to bring anything else to light, i.e. the report is not designed to tell you anything that was done that was the right thing to do -- they leave that out of the report, as it is not the function of the report. So because you did not see anything in the report does not mean a thing.
     
  11. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

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    Oct 26, 2011
    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    Back to the question on Franco, this surely defines a friend when they arewilling to support you when you are down. May not have been the political move, but it sure took balls. I'm not defending anything anyone did or did not do. It was just an observation on loyalty.

    I will pass my judgement on Paterno until we actually have the facts. Right now all we have is the Grand Jury indictment which by nature is vague and one sided. It is possible for some parties, this is not as bad as it seems. It is possible it is worse.
     
  12. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    Agreed, and agreed. To the point at hand, Franco has every right to say whatever he chooses. His employer has every right to terminate him if they feel he's not representing them in the way they want him to. I can't say either party is wrong here. It's unfortunate, but I think Franco knew the risk and went ahead anyway.

    I doubt we even have 1/2 the facts yet. It's going to be ugly.
     
  13. SteelerD

    SteelerD Well-Known Member

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    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    This is a good example of people making judgement with very little understanding of the fact and situation. One of the responsibilities of Schultz' job was that he was in charge of the campus police. Saying that he did not report this to the police is like saying that he forgot to remind himself. Also, as posted earlier, the campus police on Penn State are not rent-a-cops. I live in State College and Penn State is a massive campus with approx 45,000 students. Their campus police would resemble the police department for a small/med size city. I am not defending Paterno, I am also not condemning him. The Grand Jury report is everyone's source of information and was not written for that purpose. The report was written to compile damning evidence on Sandusky, not to explain every persons involvement and actions in detail. There are a lot of facts in this case that have yet to come to light. Until they do I will reserve judgement on the people involved. I believe that Paterno was fired as a result of the media pressure and the fact that every headline contained HIS name. I listened to ESPN for 3 straight hours on the day after and Sandusky's name was only mentioned once, while Paterno's name was repeated innumerable times. If he was involved in any way in covering this up then he got what he deserved and maybe should be punished further. But what if it comes out that he really didn't know, or possibly that he did contact police a number of times with no results? It will be too late, judgement has already been made.
     
  14. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    The grand jury report may not contain every piece of information but I don't think it is going to make false statements either. For instance, I'd have to go back and re-read it but Im fairly certain that it said no incident was ever reported to the police. But even if Paterno and McQueary did report it to police and got stonewalled, why not try the FBI? I mean we are talking over a decade here. If it was a cover up, I doubt little happy valley holds any sway over the FBI. People can slice this any way they want, it is painfully clear that not nearly enough was done by anyone involved in this incident.
     
  15. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    What?
    So, you do report it, then call the FBI? When was the last time you called something into the FBI field office?

    I believe there were reports that certain terrorists plane hijackers were called into an FBI field office and the info never went anywhere either.
     
  16. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Re: Franco Harris stands by his old coach, and loses his new

    Um, yeah, call the FBI, why is that complicated? :scratch: So let me get this straight, lets say it's you that knows a pedo is walking around free, runs a charity for children that gives him unlimited access to feed his sickness, you repeatedly see this deranged individual walking on campus with kids and you aren't going to do anything more because, "hey, I reported it once, I did my part". Is that how you roll?
     

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