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Formidable #2s

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by STEELWINDS, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hi Everyone.

    I know that I get a little long-winded sometimes. I hope though that it adds some provocative thinking and good conversation to the board. Here we go.

    I think some fans (me too) get hung up on the concept of a True #1 this or that for a given position. Of course, we can rank any set of players such as the Wide Receivers and who is our True #1 and on down the list. It is fun and usually the rankings are dictated by statistics.

    We all know that Antonio Brown was our True #1 WR when he was here. No disputing that from me. However, I have been saying the following quite a bit lately on this topic. Sticking with the current WR crew that we have, I would say that top three: JuJu, Washington, and Johnson have really not separated themselves from one another. However, this is okay IMO. Some thought that JuJu would seamlessly pick up where Brown left off and it has been anything but for various reasons. Given that, I believe he must, and will battle through the adversity that he has been facing such as the missing of Ben and Brown.

    I have been looking at the #1 “Status” concept from two standpoints: An overall NFL #1 Caliber WR and the Team’s #1. For me personally, I do not care about the “#1 Thing”. Each is very, very talented in their own ways. Some here may recall me stating that they are together a “Formidable” collection of very talented #2s. And that is great! You line them up in a 3-Set and they all can cause headaches for the opposing “Ds”. Also, I believe that each has only scratched the surface as to what they can do individually and collectively. They are all just beginning their careers with a range of 1-3 years playing time under their belts. Very young, very talented but need to mature into their positions, even JuJu.

    Now, give us a solid RB or better yet the same scenario as the WRs with Connor, Snell, Samuels, Whyte, and whoever else and we get even better. Now throw in the TEs and we get even much better. On top of that, if the O-Line stays in place that is huge to the overall picture that I am painting here.

    We have excellent talent at the “O” skilled positions. Now the cherry on top: If Ben comes back (I think he will) he is going to have a lot of “New Toys” to play with. And if the New and Improved “D” continues on their productive path…. The “O” future can be very bright again. For now, all of this is in place minus the main cog that being the QB. This is not to say this season is a wash because of no Ben. We just know the drop off in talent between Ben and the QBs we have now.

    Given that, we have remained “Significant”. We still have ball to play this season, are in the playoff hunt, have a “D” that has been playing at a whole new level; therefore, can still make some noise across the league given the remainder of this season. All of this, in part, because of Formidable #2s.

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
    • Very Optimistic Very Optimistic x 2
  2. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    I really like our receiving core, TE's included.
     
  3. Brice

    Brice Well-Known Member

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    You have to have at least 1 "Franchise" player on offense to be successful. This is a guy that when everyone else around him is having a bad day, can put the entire team on his back and march down the field for the game winning TD. (QB, RB, WR, TE, and sometimes even an offensive line can completely take over a game)

    There is no one on this team's offense who qualifies as the "Franchise". And our offensive line has never looked worse as a unit than this year.

    We have #2 talent everywhere and that makes us a middle of the road team that has chance to win on any given Sunday; if our Defense has a great game. But, a run deep into the playoffs is not going to happen this year.


    Fill in the Blank
    When things go wrong as they sometime do; You have to have an answer to the question "Well what do we do now?"
    Answer: We put the ball in ______'s hands and let him do his thing.

    This year Pittsburgh does not have the answer to this question.
     
  4. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Having a true #1 is desirable but not essential in my humble opinion.

    Look at the list of SuperBowl winners this decade. Pats, Eagles, Broncos, Seahawk’s, Giants, Ravens. Primarily defensively strong with a stout running game and reliable receivers, did any have a truly transcendent WR1? I know the Pats had Gronk but last year he was relatively subdued and the previous time they won he was injured and missed most of the season iirc. All of them had very good receivers of course.

    Games and seasons are won in the trenches, control the line of scrimmage and play good defence. Move the chains on offence and of course you need to be good in the Redzone but I wouldn’t fret about having a true WR1. A good opponent will take them away as we often see the Patriots do in big games.

    The Steelers this year are a bit of an anomaly, losing a HOF caliber WR and QB and then suffering a raft of injuries at the skill positions. If the team had even an average to good offence they’d be contenders.

    Just my opinion
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    Good post, and I don't mean to overlook the other points, but this one is concerning to me. I don't think Ben would have faired well this season with the sub-par performance of our OL. If his arm didn't sideline him, he would have been sacked like the old days when he was leading the league. Until the hogs overcome the loss of Munch and start playing better, our offense will struggle no matter who is dropping back for us. As the OL goes, so goes the offense.

    I have a feeling we are going to find a good candidate by the end of the season. If we can find an identitiy on offense in the next 4 games, we'll not only be ready for the playoffs but lay the foundation for next year.
     
  6. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I have formidable #2’s. Just ask my plunger.

    Ahem... back on the original poster’s topic - I agree that having 3 legit #2 caliber receivers can be just as good as having a #1 and a bunch of other nondescript guys. I don’t think JW and DJ are there yet, though JW has strung together a couple of great weeks.
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 2
  7. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    JuJu is a legit #1. Barring injury, he will prove it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Very Optimistic Very Optimistic x 1
  8. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    You long winded never. Now your fingers could get tired.:)

    Interesting post!
     
  9. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    Right now my answer to fill in the blank is "Duck" because whether or not we want to, we have to. In Duck we Quack. Beat AZ.
     
  10. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey The Glory Days.

    Thanks for the response. Like I said, I know it was long-winded. Yes, we do have the next 4 games to keep building off one another. If the QB play is average at best (no silly mistakes, play it safe when in doubt) and the "O" skilled players can uphold their end of the bargain plus the "D" continuing their thing, and yes, even more from them, that is critical. No back-sliding from them. They seem to have figured some things out finally! I think we can make some noise if we get to the playoffs. For me, I want the Super Bowl Ring, like everyone else here. Why not? I truly believe that if all the "O" weapons are back and healthy it is going to come down to the QB play. Take care my friend.

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Our production is not great but that’s due to O line and lack of running game. Can also be contributed to who was the qb as duck is opening up the rushing game a bit
     
  12. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    The offensive line isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. The Steelers still aren't giving up many sacks. Roethlisberger often threw under pressure, too. The difference is that he does it a hell of a lot better than Rudolph or Hodges. It is that ability to make plays under pressure, or to buy more time by moving when things start to break down, that has made him a Hall of Fame quarterback. Losing that makes everybody on offense look worse. They also don't have a receiver who consistently gets open the way Brown did. They have also missed Conner much of the season and lately they have been without Smith-Schuster, too. Even the loss of Nix has an effect. Sure, they didn't use him enough, but look at the one game he did manage to return this season. Suddenly, the running game looked a lot better for one week.

    The significant drop in talent at the skill positions is the real problem on offense. I'm not saying the line is playing exactly as well as it had. Villanueva has struggled more against top pass rushers and they definitely could be playing better, but that group is well down the list of problems on offense.
     
  13. CK 13

    CK 13 Well-Known Member

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    JuJu has not been when he is playing a legitimate #1.

    Washington is starting to come alive which is sorely needed. He may be truly the #1 if his upswing continues. He is now due to Jujus injury status.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey Wardismvp.

    I too very much like our WR crew. I think that each of the three mentioned are all very talented in their own ways. It is just a feeling, maybe because they are all around the same age and each has shown very good signs of talent. If given the option, I would rather have three very good WRs (Good=#2 IMO) than just one star WR. The "D" is going to have to figure out who the #1 is as that person eventually will emerge which will lead to requiring double coverage.

    Now, If all three can get and stay on the field at the same time then the QB can have his pick of the crop. Now throw in a wide and varied skill-set of RBs that can catch/run (I really like Samuels and Whyte in those situations) and that adds a 4th receiver. Now throw in the two TEs and we are up to at least one more strong receiver.

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  15. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey Brice.

    The answer to your question, for me, would have to be James Washington. He is no Santonio or Antonio but he is who I would be leaning towards right now IF you want a definitive answer. Yes, we do have "#2 talent" all over the place. Only time will let the pack separate itself. This may take into next year unfortunately. However, we have to live in the present and do the best with what we have. Given that, (and I know you get it) is that with all of this #2 (which as a teacher I grade as a "B") I feel pretty confident as long as they are all on the field at the same time they can get the job done.


    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  16. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    It don't matter to me who is ranked, where they are ranked or how they're ranked... Just care if they get the job done on Sunday!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    New England wins Super Bowls with Edelman as their #1 WR
     
  18. SGSteeler

    SGSteeler Well-Known Member

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    Just to play devil's advocate but some of those teams have #1 receivers...

    Broncos - Demaryius Thomas (Emanuel Sanders as well but he would be a high end #2)
    Pats - Julian Edelman is a top 10 WR in the league
    Eagles - Alshon Jeffery
    Seahawks - close to not... but Doug Baldwin is probably a #1/#2 tweener
    Giants - Yeah no one
    Ravens - Anquan Boldin was definitely a #1 type, but this was later in his career

    I agree that you don't need an elite WR to win it all, but if you look at the teams that didn't have one the common theme is that those teams had great defenses that would get after the QB and get turnovers.

    Besides. There are a lot of reasons why #19 has struggled some as a #1 receiver (poor play by MR, conservative playcalling with Duck and MR, etc.) but I think with Roethlisberger back in action you see what JuJu can really be. Even if that's only a top 30 WR in the league that's fine. With Johnson and Washington showing that they can be dangerous, I like the look of our young WR corps moving forward.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey Dobbler33.

    Yes, in the end that is all that matters. Get that "W". And with that, because the three wide receivers are so closely related in talent, IMO, it will probably fluctuate for a while until one "breaks away" from the pack to become our True #1. Too me, like you, it may be Holton one game (no knock on Holton). He may have the game of his life: 11 catches,4 TDs, 208 yards, Kick off return for a TD. Wow, what a day at the office that would be. Back to realty though, winning is all that matters. I would be happy if we won 2-0 every week.

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  20. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that, some excellent receivers there. I wasn’t implying that those teams won with a bunch of hacks at receiver, merely that they didn’t have AB / Hopkins / Beckham types taking over games. I think potentially Juju could be as good as Baldwin and Washington could reach or surpass the level of Jeffery, who is a borderline #1 imo. Johnson has really impressed me, I believe he will be very good too if he can stay clear of injuries. I’m not overly worried about the receivers, they probably need a good TE in the upcoming draft or in 2021 as Vance is pushing on and he is expensive.

    I think we are in agreement that defence wins championships and imo it is much easier to ‘fix’ issues at the skill positions on offence which is where the Steelers are struggling a bit. It’s such a pity the window is closing (if not already closed) with Ben, it will be a mammoth task to replace him right when everything else appears to be falling in to place.
     
  21. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey SteelersFanIrl.

    Yes, I mentioned this several times here. And it all happened "overnight" seemingly. All at once the 3-Bs all departed. Ben will be back but also is gone for now. I tried to tell those who were in denial of the drop-off that was to occur. They thought that seamlessly, Connor would replace Bell and JuJu to replace Brown. WRONG! I am not a "I told you so person". Nor, am I a fortune teller. However, one did not have to be a psychic too see this coming.

    Now, if we had a healthy Ben playing but still minus Bell and Brown we would have been better off for sure but you still do not replace the caliber of players like Brown and Bell with a snap of the fingers. These two are HOF material in my opinion and would have been well on their ways if they had stayed in Pittsburgh. I get pissed off just thinking and writing about it. If we had kept Brown and Bell and Ben did not get injured combined with our new and improved "D" we are "Freakin' Awesome! For now, though we are still "Significant" as I always say. We are competitive and in a playoff race that we need to stay focused on and have done a good job with that up to this point.

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  22. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey Wardismvp.

    I love the TEs. My problem with the them is they have seemingly "vanished" from the "O" I have been stating this for weeks now. I have no clue why they are being underutilized/not used at all. This is totally ridiculous for so many reasons, with #1 being they can be a young QB's best friend. Are they being used more for blocking? I just do not get it. I am very frustrated and confused.

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  23. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey steelersrule6.

    At some point someone will emerge as our #1. Just for fun. Who do you think it will be? For me, I was initially thinking like some that it was going to be JuJu. However, from what I have seen from Washington lately, and he continues to ball like that he has been, I am leaning that way now. I do not think we will really know though until next year. As long as they just keep improving. For now, the important thing is that all three continue to contribute and help us to stack Ws.

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  24. TheTerribleOwl

    TheTerribleOwl Well-Known Member

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    Michael Irvin certainly thinks he will. He was raving about JuJu on Pittsburgh sports radio. Said JuJu is the one guy that Irvin went to the Cowboys and said they had to get him.
     
  25. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey CK 13.

    Yes, I am anxious to see how all three (JuJu, Washington, Johnson) perform on the field at the same time. Plus a healthy Connor and for crying out loud the implementation of the TEs!

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     

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