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for former players. high school and up

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by steel1031, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

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    a couple of serious question. now I go back a ways. played 2 years of college ball back in the early 90's. not major college so not trying to sound like I was a stud. far from it.

    my question is. did you ever lose a game when you said damn, coach lost us that game? did you ever come out and play down to your opponent because the coach didn't jack you up before kickoff?

    I ask this because being a player I never blamed a coach for a loss. I played for coaches who got a lot of credit for the wins they had. they always gave the players the credit as most do. that said. they meant it. they would give us a game plan and we had to execute. they couldn't play on the field and that is where the games are won and lost.

    did we always buy into what they said? no. did that mean they lost the team? no. we knew it was on us to win or lose the game. we lost games where if we had executed what they wanted us to do, we would've won.

    I get the hate for tomlin. ultimately its on him. is it his fault? I will always say no. not completely. do they need staff changes? maybe but both units were in the top 10.

    the board is blowing up with fire him now. I just wondered if many people played at a higher level than maybe middle school football. I played for 2 hall of fame coaches and was very fortunate to do so. maybe that's why my views toward the coaches seems to be the minority. I have and will always say. players play and coaches coach.

    some of the best coaches in the world have had losing seasons. why? because the players weren't good.

    some of the most average coaches have won super bowls. Brian Billick. why? great players.
     
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  2. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    I played High School football. I can’t remember anyone blaming a coach for a loss.
     
  3. Smitch89

    Smitch89 Well-Known Member

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    Keep tooting that horn of yours lol.. Maybe u can sit down with LeBron and talk about how your the goat in your own dillusional mind
     
  4. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

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    how am I tooting my own horn?
     
  5. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    I was in the band. I blamed everyone. JK. We had a very good coach with a great record.
     
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  6. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    I worked, no time for 2 a days. Played intramural football with no coaches. Some teams were better prepared than others & that took effort from the players. My opinion is that this team falls asleep at the wheel.
     
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  7. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I don't know why the hate moniker is always attached to people wanting a coaching change. Why can't it just be that we don't have faith in Tomlin getting us to a SB anymore.

    I don't know how you can come away from this season without laying partial blame for at least 2 losses by bad decisions.

    I don't know how you ignore the poor performances against teams like the raiders every single damn year without pointing at the coaching or at least wondering if it's coaching.

    And you now have two players saying they play down to the competition. But what do they know. Coaches are infallible right, couldn't possibly be responsible for a team underachieving.

    Anyway, this is :beathorse:
     
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  8. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    Playing down to the level of competition is on the players. Come to think of it how many players in the history of the league ever said they were coached to play down to the level of the competition?

    I don't believe in the idea of lesser competition in the NFL. There are teams with good records and bad records. Not much separates the teams that have good records from the teams that have bad records. All teams have the necessary talent to beat you.

    Coaches watch film with the players. They break down different strengths and weakness of the opposition. Explain to the players what it will take to win vs the opposition. ect ect ect.

    Coaches are similar to teachers. Teachers give you the information you need to study to pass the exam. It's up to you as a student to study the material and eventually pass the exam. If players don't execute or do as instructed then the team will fail the exam.
     
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  9. DukeDukeDaDaDa

    DukeDukeDaDaDa Well-Known Member

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    You're completely assuming that the coach/teacher is always giving perfect instruction which is absurd. By that logic any college or hs coach could coach an NFL team and if they're not successful it's the players' fault. Both sides play an integral part.
     
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  10. DukeDukeDaDaDa

    DukeDukeDaDaDa Well-Known Member

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    Well you said you didn't play for a major college team but played for two HOF coaches. Those two statements don't seem to go together.
     
  11. Boomer

    Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes one bad apple really does spoil the whole bunch. Look at the stains, they get rid of one guy, Hue Jackson, and now look like a real team. And he goes to another team and now they can’t get out of their own way. Mine Tomlin very well could be that one bad apple.
     
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  12. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. By that logic I could go in with my piss poor gameplan and scheme and just expect the players to win with it...where do I sign up?
     
  13. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the hall of fame. Tennessee sports hall of fame. Ken sparks and Craig kisebeth.
     
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  14. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    I suppose my assumption is that coaching at the highest level in the land is pretty good. Coaches don't reach that level without having the ability to coach.

    Obviously players and coaches play integral part in the success of a team. Ultimately the success of a team boils down to execution by the players.

    Poor execution is the main reason this team failed to win more games this year. Poor execution is why this team isn't in the post season.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  15. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    I can. Telling coaches what certain players are doing on the field and what plays, twists, stunts, pulls, etc. will work best and having them flat out ignore it. Of course every OL wants to run the ball and smash heads every down.
     
  16. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    There's a reason why our defensive schemes are questioned,mocked and ridiculed by players and former players. There have been countless articles written about Butlers terrible schemes and strategies. How can you say it boils down to players executing when the schemes are severely flawed. The people criticizing the coaching aren't making it up. The D is just one example there are plenty of other examples of us going into games and just ignoring other teams weaknesses. Is that the players fault that our coaches decide not to gameplan against a teams weaknesses? You can clearly see the difference when this team is properly motivated and prepared. It's night and day and it's not all on the players. We finally beat NE this year because we game planned to take away their strengths and actually put our players in a position to succeed.
    We changed up our first half strategy to blitz Brees in the second half and our D was successful in slowing them down. We don't always make those adjustments. More often " we do what we do" that's on the coaches.....
     
  17. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    I can think of 7 million reasons per year why Tomlin should be held more accountable than a HS coach getting an additional $2,000 stipend on top of his teachers salary.
     
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  18. jrompola

    jrompola Well-Known Member

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    I played bball and have certainly thought it was the coaches fault. We went undefeated nearly every year facing the same opponents from elementary school till varsity yet on varsity we didnt make districts. Wed play summer leagues or 3 on 3 tournies vs these very same opponents and win yet with this 1 coach wed lose. He made the dumbest lineup decisions, subbed at horrid times, and was just inept. He was a great guy but not cutout to coach. We had 2 6'8 guys who sucked but being they were tall they played albeit they rarely played on previous teams. I was a better center yet played SG.

    I certainly believe coaches can will you to play better, put you in higher chances to succeed, and do effect the game.
     
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  19. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I played HS ball and I can tell ya this in this small town there is a ton of blame of the coach now and back then. We were just at our 30 year reunion and one of the things we were laughing about was our playbook from the 80's.......run run pass punt! Now with that said we also laughed about how much talent we had and didn't win anything cause all we cared about was where the party after the game was. :shrug:

    We are not talking HS sports we are talking the NFL, big business and full time JOBS! Coaching has so much to do with it as playing, for example you hear people talk about how a certain offense works. Then you hear how the coaches are so good and once they get tape they know how to stop it. Yes players do play the game but coaches put them into position to win....at the NFL level. I understand some may think blaming the coach is the easy way out and yeah sometimes it is but not here with the Steelers imo.
     
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  20. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    The answer is absolutely yes. I played for a lousy high school program with poor coaching at the varsity level. My freshman football coach would scout the opposition and would game plan to the opponents. We would know who the key players on the opposing team were (by uniform number), and what plays they tended to run with different personnel. When I got to JV and varsity, there was zero game planning. We would read about players on other teams in the local papers, but unless we went to opponets’ games we wouldn’t even know their jersey numbers until game day. If something was going wrong for us, we would never adjust. It was the “we do what we do” mentality. I played mainly LB, CB and S in high school, and never really got training on fundamentals like tackling, man coverage techniques or zone coverage techniques. The coaches would just run drills during practices and use the players who had the most success figuring it out on their own. So, yes, I am keenly aware of how preparation and building fundamentals affects game day performance, and I do blame my old HS coaches for many of our losses back then. We actually had a team with plenty of stud athletes, but were never prepared properly. I remember going up against a perennial state champion, and getting pounded in the trenches despite outweighing them by 20 lbs per man on the lines. They had fundamentals down and ran various blocking schemes and defensive stunts. We just plowed straight ahead and “did what we do.”

    I realize my example is much more extreme than an NFL example would be, but it makes me keenly aware of just how badly poor coaching can impact a team’s play. I know from experience that the “players play and coaches coach” line is a gross oversimplification.

    I can also relate it to everyday life. I have been in corporate leadership positions for decades, and I have seen first hand how good and bad leadership affects the performance of personnel under the leaders. I’ve had my share of miscues as a leader that have resulted in performance lapses by employees, and many experiences where my coaching has improved employees’ performance. It’s not just the X’s and O’s. It’s teaching people how to be accountable, and holding them accountable when their performance is not up to snuff. It’s teaching people how to work together towards a common goal. It’s creating a culture of performance.

    I normally hate the mandatory Human Resources leadership training that corporate leaders have to go through on a constant basis (those of you in similar positions know what I mean). However, one really resonated with me. It was called “Shadow of a Leader.” As a leader (and coach), everything you do and say can have an effect on the people in your shadow. So for example, when the Steelers are preparing for a home playoff game vs. the Jags, and Tomlin is already talking about next week’s expected rematch with the Patriots, the arrogance is going to rub off on the players, and voila: we lay an egg.

    So in short, I don’t buy the “players play and coaches coach” excuse. Coaches LEAD. The head coach is the top leader of all of the other coaches and players, and everything he does affects the overall team performance.
     
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  21. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    I was an all conference safety 2 years in HS many many years ago in Western Pa . Received
    a basketball offer to play for a small school div 3 in North Carolina.. Never blamed coaches,or officials. Looked in the mirror
    and tried to improve my game.Football is the ultimate team game. Coaches need to put players in the position
    to succeed.As in life choices are important, I have made my share of bad choices. But I try to pick
    myself up and be a productive citizen which I think I have. I am a PGH homer, I was an
    impressionable teen thruout the dynasty years. I am old enough to remember when the Steelers
    were terrible. I love football and have all my life, and I consider the Steelers the GOLD standard.
    It hurts me deeply when Steelers are not winning and winning BIG.
     
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  22. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    2K? here in WPA big school coaches get around 8-10K on top of their avg teacher salary of 70K for nine months work. and benefits for their selves and spouse's when they retire until they get to medicare.ButI do agree on Tomlin, there are fortune 500 execs managing a whole lot more people that aren't making nor will ever make 7million a year
     
  23. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Salaries are all over the place at the high school level around here. For example in my small town our DC gets around 3k but up the road a half hour in the "bigger city" the coaches are any where from 5k-10k.
     

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