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Fire Keith Butler

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by niterider, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I'll give it the season to play out, what choice do we have but if this doesn't get better, than its time to end the athletic over football players experiment. Tomlin has a formula that he has been drafting by the last several years. If this continues to blow up this season, they have set them back years with the draft choices they have been taking on defense.

    OR

    Maybe they just need a real DC to take advantage of that athletic ability. Hopefully that one because that will be easier to fix.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. THREE RIVER SHIVER

    THREE RIVER SHIVER Well-Known Member

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    Watt is by far your best pass rusher....HE NEEDS TO RUSH THE QB EVERY PLAY..no one else on the team is as good at it.If he is covering wide recievers your defensive coordinator needs to be drug tested
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    We don't have a choice but to want to blame Butler is wrong as far as I am concerned. You said bring Rex in well I would be fine with that but the question is would Tomlin give full control cause he isn't giving Butler full control. jmo
     
  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Why is blaming Butler wrong? Id rather that be the problem than the talent.

    And Rex has a much better pedigree than Butler. Coaches don't normally take responsibilities away from their DC, if MT tried that with Rex, he'd quit.

    If MT doesn't feel Butler can do the job, he should replace him. He's just making him a lame duck coach by keeping him around. Assuming MT is still inserting himself into the DC responsibilities.
     
  5. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Well why I feel blaming Butler is wrong is cause Tomlin is not letting Butler run the defense. Your 100% right if Tomlin don't feel KB can do the job get rid of him don't keep him and not let him coach. Believe me I wish the problem was Butler and not the talent but I don't feel it is either, I feel it is Tomlin. Lebeau was a 3-4 guy and Butler learned from DL so why was Butler hire full time after DL left? I don't think DL is washed up and I think Butler is a good coach, where I feel the problem is Tomlin wants this hybrid defense and it don't fit the DC's we have/had. jmo

    And yeah your right if Tomlin pull this on Rex he would quit so why bring him in????
     
  6. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Because I don't think he would. You don't hire a DC like Rex just to interfere.
     
  7. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    One final take of mine before I let this go. A thought I had pondered since the Jacksonville game but has now further surfaced within my thoughts; brought up here to share with all of you. I hope you enjoy this little take of mine. :)



    For the most part, Butler has set out to accomplish some of the tasks given to him:


    1.) Simplify the defense so that younger players could get to the field faster.


    2.) Increase the amount of pressure on the quarterback.


    3.) A lesser extent but still more prominent than the LeBeau days in incorporating more man covergae.



    That all being said however, looking back since 2015, something has been unusual; indirectly for me anyway. I did not mind it at the time because the defense was producing from 2015-2017; becoming a defense that could generate pressure from four from anywhere while being able to acquire turnovers. However, much of what I observed during that time seemed eerily similar towards what LeBeau used to do. Yes, Butler is LeBeau's understudy but he has incorporated his own wrinkles. While that does not sound all that bad, said discussion point is what leads me to what I believe is the current issue at hand here.



    Butler seems to be too schematically entrapped given what we have seen thus far this season. Too many times either the EXACT same defensive formation is still being applied on the opposition that will likely take advantage of; namely against Kansas City. If it is not the same formation being used, the formation itself is used as a main point of emphasis to nullify the oppositions incoming offensive play; personnel being irrelevant. This is catastrophic for two reasons:


    1.) The player is going to be continually put into unwinnable situations a good portion of the time


    And most Importantly..


    2.) Formations that do not minimize the offenses capabilities by allocating the better athletes into areas they really should not increase the likelihood of the offense not just exploiting but capitalizing on such blunders.


    Ultimatley speaking, no matter how good an athlete is, if the scheme hinders his critical ability to simply react or, even worse, if the scheme itself is incompatible with his skillset, no matter what play within the playbook a coach has, its meaningless. It is the equivalent of attempting to build Mt. Everest using a handful of pebbles.


    Now some of these defensive coordinators have athletes of their own but do one critical aspect. Defensive Coordinators like Mike Schwartz, George Edwards, Vic Fangio, Kris Richard and even Cleveland's own Gregg Williams all currently have athletic players of their own right but deploy them to maximize their abilities. Sure, they also have their own schemes but the aforementioned coaches do not allow the schemes themselves to run the defense but rather what their players are capable of and how to deploy those counter measures against the opposition.



    In short? Personnel Weaknesses are the new "building materials" and no longer the "foundation" they were in the 2000s. In greater layman's terms and, as an example, one can no longer use an uber athletic linebacker in a base defense (this case the 3-4) against a sub 4.4 receiver in man coverage on an offenses empty set when the receiver is running a go route. That is either a touchdown waiting to happen.




    Butler NEEDS to get with the program and understand that formation weaknesses meam nothing anymore. Personnel Weaknesses are how defenses can win games. The athletes are there and ready for Butler to use. It is up to him to actually USE them to the best of their abilities.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin said point blank at the PC that he does NOT call the defensive plays.....
     
  9. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Nice write up..... tell me if my summary is correct....
    They are not putting players in a position where they can succeed or in layman’s terms....
    They don’t know what the **** they are doing.....how’d I do?
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 2
  10. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    This is Tomlin we are talking about.........
     
  11. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not right now but he did take it over last year, read the link I post a few posts ago.....
     
  12. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Yes I as aware of it back then. I'm just telling you what he said as of now. Either way it wasn't working last year when he was and it isn't working now that he isn't. To me that points to whoever is calling the plays it doesn't matter if the scheme is destined to fail....
     
  13. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin didn't call the defense last year, steelers wire isn't credible those guys are a joke.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Rex Ryan as DC no thanks, his players in Buffalo complained after he came in changed the defense and they sucked.
     
  15. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    Steelers wire sited Ed Bouchette as their source for the info in that article.

    From Ed's article wrapping up last season:
    There was some surprise no coaching change was forthcoming on defense, but if that were to occur, Tomlin might have to start with himself. He called many of the defensive plays from the sideline this season. He also took charge of many of the secondary meetings and those with the entire defense.
     
  16. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    he runs this whole team and is tomlins and butlers boss. director of football operations. i assure you the football here is not operating. :cool:
     
  17. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    That is correct sir....
     
  18. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I disagree and why I disagree is cause I feel KB is running MT's scheme. We have players come and go and the same result I feel it is more scheme then player and imo this is MT's scheme.
     
  19. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    • Like Like x 2
  20. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    You know you have an out of control situation when there are questions of who is leading what and when on D. I hope Rooney had this explained to him. The DC should be running the D, period. If not, something is so wrong with him that the HC needs to take over? Then who is accountable? Too late for changes this year IMO so hoping this cluster #### gets straightened out ASAP. This team has been a disappointment going back to Jax. If we can blow out Tampa, some healing may take place and we can start trend in the opposite direction.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    I'm thinking don't give up 6 TD's to the amish musket and co., but a blowout would be nice too.
     
  22. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    I would hire Bud Foster Va Tech to be the defensive coach in a heart beat....
     
  23. niterider

    niterider Well-Known Member

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    If Tomlin does not trust Butler to run his own Defense then Tomlin is complicit in this mess. Either way, they are both to blame.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. niterider

    niterider Well-Known Member

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    I have a hard time believing that our scout department has turned this bad in the past few years of evaluating talent. I'm pretty sure it's a lack of development on the coach's part. I mean, I love Joey Porter but he wasn't exactly a tactician playing LB. He thrived on talent and hype. He has no business being an LB coach.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  25. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

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    Why do people think he’s calling plays? I saw one comment a while back about 2 calls being made and a lack of communication being a problem, but I think the ex knucklehead at safety was the problem.
     
    • Like Like x 1

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