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Fire Keith Butler

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by 08SteelCurtain, Jan 22, 2017.

  1. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    at least once per game ..He sucked last night also..
     
  2. RobertoC#21

    RobertoC#21 Well-Known Member

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    The only reason they failed at both zone and man, not that they gave man a chance, was because they never brought pressure on Brady, You cant play man or zone and give the QB 5 seconds or more to throw the ball. Brady gets rid of the ball quick anyways because he is such a p**** that he doesnt want to be hit ever, so bringing zero pressure and trying to cover them with zone was like shooting fish in a barrel. It was never going to work until you made Brady uncomfortable and we never did that!!!
     
  3. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    We couldn't every time we blitzed from the zone he had the ball out in like 2 seconds way before the blitz could get home at least we had some guys around to tackle..They missed a lot but oh well..When we played man and we tried to blitz he hit the guy in 2 seconds as well and we had very little help left for the tackle....

    I agree that you must pressure Brady to beat him, but you must also jam the WR'S and take away the quick throws...We tried to play some man/zone concepts and guys just beat our guys flat ...Gay and Ross are not good enough in zone or man..Mike is not good as a single high Safety nor can he guard a guy 1 on 1 ...Timmons can not get to his drops fast enough and he can't guard a guy 1 on 1 ...Simply to many holes to play Cover 0 and that's how to send the heat..Not a good enough player at Safety to play Cover 1....Lb's can't get to there drops in cover 2 or cover 3 ...We simply had no way to play Brady and we really never have...
     
  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    That's false too. That was proven when you claimed one game he was spun around 3 times when in fact he wasn't once.

    No one was good last night. That's what happens when you give Brady all day to throw. But go ahead and ignore the good play leading up to last night.
     
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    good play leading up to is not finishing the job, it just makes you the KC chiefs. :cool:
     
  6. Spencer

    Spencer Well-Known Member

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    Butler had his chance to be his own man but he continues to be LeBeau junior.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    The defense has some holes and a lack of experience we can all see that but for the most part they have carried us on our win streak. It has been our offense that has underperformed and a better O can make it a lot easier on the D. The Atlanta and the cheats D looks a whole lot better and their jobs are a whole lot easier when you are up by 20 points in the blink of a eye. This is becoming more and more of a offensive league.....pretty soon you won't be able to tackle at all. While I agree we need to draft or recruit some help via FA to solidify our D ,we still need to complete this offense as well. Bryant could solve a lot of problems but it's a risk counting on him. I like Rogers and Ayers in the slot but we have no reliable deep threat unless Coates really gets his act together. We could use another receiving TE because Green is clearly damaged goods. A more trustworthy back up to Bell too somebody younger than DWill that the coaching staff trusts.
    I don't think Ben had a particularly good year maybe because of the inexperienced WR corp but we need to find consistency somehow. With a back like Bell and all the things he can do this offense should be better than it has shown. It's on Ben and the coaches to be better and more consistent.There is a lot of questionable decision making all around. We can improve our talent but more importantly we need to improve our decision making. Gonna be a critical offseason.....time is running out.
     
  8. Coastal Steeler

    Coastal Steeler

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    We did. The day in Pittsburgh when we stopped their 21 game winning streak. We played man that day
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

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    I just don't understand how we play conservative/zone try to keep everyone in front and give up 37 and let them get behind the defense. Meanwhile, the Cheatriots are running the defense we should be running.. Man and jamming at the line and we never get behind them. Once they get the lead then they fall to zone and keep everything in front. I wish we had some real coaches.
     
  10. Jim90

    Jim90 Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing head to toe lol
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Jim90

    Jim90 Well-Known Member

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    the only receivers they allowed to get behind them were the ones with the hands made out of bricks.
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  12. BK99

    BK99 Well-Known Member

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    PWP is exactly right!!!! This is why DL always played zone against top QBs, the object is to try to force them into long drives and hope to make a mistake. The reason for it is we don't have anyone capable of playing man coverage, I keep telling you guys, Artie Burns will be a good zone coverage CB and nothing more, he takes long strides and takes forever to change direction, you can't fix that with experience because it is just the way it is for big CBs. Cockrell is slow and can't tackle well, I've watched him get torched every time they try to use him in a man coverage scheme. The big stat line from that game that sticks out is the number of passes defended, ZERO, yep, look it up, zero passes defended. I watch other games and it amazes me how many times guys catch balls uncontested when playing the Steelers, I see 5 or 6 times it happens with no defender in site with other teams but with the Steelers it is like clock work, 3rd and 9, no problem, run a 10 yard out as the CB is back pedaling 15 yards away. The main reason though is like PWP mentioned, there just isn't any real talent in our secondary, we have no coverage guys, and Davis will not be a cover safety either, he is going to be an enforcer the same way Mitchell is, only Davis has slightly better coverage skills but not by much. All this team needs is 1 more dominant d-lineman, and a true edge rusher and a coach that knows how to keep egos in check and it will be unstoppable.
     
  13. turtle

    turtle

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    The defense Quinn coached in Seattle (and probably took to Atlanta) was fairly simple by NFL standards. Gives the players less to think about and they can just play. You saw how our defense reacted when Brady and co. went to the hurry up early on. Guys were not prepared and were lost and mired in confusion imo.

    Don't know if I'd fire Butler or not, but I wouldn't be upset if they parted ways I'll say that.
     
  14. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    I watched the 1st half then went to work. Only seen clips of the 2nd half so far but will watch it thoroughly this week.

    I can agree with the sentiment of Firing Butler. I was screaming at the TV when we were on defense. I told everyone then if we stay zoned off-man Brady will pick us apart. Artie is NOT an off man CB. He isn't a reliable tackler in that situation. Gay is perfect for that style, he reads the play well, reacts well and is a very solid tackler.

    Mitchell is NOT a cover safety. He is Too aggressive and can baited too easily.

    Tom is good and we make him look GREAT every time we play him. He owned LeBeau because he was too stubborn to adjust from his philosophy and the one time he did we soundly beat them. Butler was on that staff. So why in the Hell did he revert back to LeBeaus offman zone. Worse yet is when he saw Tom slicing up this defense with his gameplan why did he not adjust.

    Answer, he was scared of Tom and Belicheat and didn't trust his defense that he coached all year. We have the talent to press and disrupt their rtes and throw off his timing. Brady is NOT Rodgers and isnt a run threat!! If we hold them up and be "grabby" like they were and was being allowed by the refs then it would have given more time for our rush to get there. You hit Marsha Brady and he gets mad and upset and whiny and out of his game. The Giants has proven this multible times.

    I like Butler, he is a solid position coach but maybe,just maybe, the DC Chair is too big for him.

    Cajun-
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Steelers '08

    Steelers '08 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but we lost mostly because we couldn't get ANY pressure on Brady. I'm so disappointed with the effort and as you said NO defensive adjustments period. When Hogan can go wild on us we're doing something wrong. That was a dang shame that we couldn't even make it a game. Tomlin always says we have to play perfect against them. I think we let the Patriots mystic get to us way to much and play extremely tight. We moved the ball at times but like last Sunday couldn't get the ball in the end zone when needed. Never mind Bell was out after the second play of the game. Williams filled in nicely though. All in all very poor performance in all areas. Hopefully next year!
     
  16. Nick petrelli

    Nick petrelli New Member

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    The first point I would like to make is that regardless of schematic changes, I don't think our defense has the personnel to beat the patriots. I love the steelers but defensively they need experiences like this to mature and grow. These are the changes I think would be effective I. The modern NFL:

    1. I would like to seem them switch to a 4_3 defense similar to John Gruden's Tampa Bay teams.
    2. Cam Hayward, Stephen Tuitt, and Jacob Hargrave would make for an excellent DT rotation in this scheme.
    3. James Harrison and Bud Dupree could make excellent DE's and they could look for an edge rusher in the draft. (I would like to see them trade up early in the 292nd while using their first on a DB)
    4. Regardless of their pass rush the steeler defensive backfield is still awful. Sean Davis and Artie Burns are the only 2 that don't IMO prove to be old, slow, and incapable of covering a modern receiver man to man or bump and run. Sean Davis simply has too much talent at safety to be wasted at corner. Which is why they need to spend their first round pick on a truely tenacious corner.
    7. I would still like to see the steelers have some 3_4 schemes to add flexibilty to their week to week gameplan. A defense that could potentially run both effectively ONLY when needed could wreak havoc on opposing offenses.

    LASTLY.... Keith Butler needs to go and Mike Tomlin needs to realize that you cannot in today's NFL go in to a game with such a narrow mindset. Sometimes you have to adjust, grow, and evolve as a team. You can't just force your will in every situation. This archaic thinking will keep them from becoming a champion.

    Thanks for reading. I feel better haha. Go Steelers!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. 08SteelCurtain

    08SteelCurtain Well-Known Member

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    Although I imagine Keith Butler was very busy fumbling with his jar of honey while the game was taking place, he was the linebackers coach on that day in 2011 when Pittsburgh played press man and won somewhat easily. Did that gameplan come up in any meetings? Or at least as a Plan B, throw Tom Brady a curveball kind of thing?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. 08SteelCurtain

    08SteelCurtain Well-Known Member

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    I want to second the 4-3 suggestion. I am a lover of the 3-4 zone blitz scheme, but it will not get us to the Superbowl in 2017. I was always nervous that they'd switch to 4-3 in 2011/2012ish because Mike Tomlin is actually a 4-3 guy, and I was a firm believer that the 3-4 would always work.

    But I think Deebo and Bud would be way above average 4-3 DE's and we have the front seven to be there. It's the secondary that needs work. I would still opt for a Takk McKinley type pass rusher RD1, but after that we need at least two effective man corners
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. 08SteelCurtain

    08SteelCurtain Well-Known Member

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    We are drafting BPA freak athletes in the draft; why not figure out if they can be better than the men in front of them?
     
  20. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Not if our corners can't cover and give 15 yd cushions....we will never beat QBs who get rid of the ball quick....what good is another DL and a edge rusher.
     
  21. Nick petrelli

    Nick petrelli New Member

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    I absolutely agree with this. However I think if we were going so draft something other than corner in the first (I do not think they should but for debate sake), a talent like Raekwon McMillan paired up with Timmons, and Shazier would be scary. They could even pick up a veteran DE similar to JPP in free agency. They certainly could pick him up at a bargain giving them talent and depth. I'm not sure why they don't make the 4-3 leap. Now is as good a time as any.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Nick petrelli

    Nick petrelli New Member

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    Also I just wanted to add I agree wholeheartedly with the need for a pass rusher. However I think the steelers need to quit putting band aids over our defensive backfield and invest long term in defending the pass in a day where if you can't cover, you can't win. Furthermore, JPP can help that pass rush and McMillan or Shazier flying through an unexpected A gap blitz in a 4-3.... SCARY! Then next year get a 1st round edge rusher.
     
  23. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    You may have a point, but why go to the DC when you could ask the HC. Isn't the HC the one
    that really should have say so in this matter? It's (obvious) how did you like that one, that MT is not the
    CEO all of you Tomlin fans thought he was. LOL I have seen enough of this jokester.
     
  24. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I have not read this whole thread, I am 5 pages behind so I am just going to throw my opinion out there. During the game I was super pissed on the 1st play that we rushed 3 guys....the rest was history. I also wondered why we didn't adjust at any point of the game, I think I heard we blitzed 6 times. Then yesterday at work I had the Dan Patrick show on and Ross Tucker was doing an interview. I usually listen to Ross in the morning at this time on my way to work. He was call the game for westward radio and he interviewed Tomlin at half and asked if there was going to be any adjustments. MT said not much right now his young guys are play "scatter brained" which I am not sure what to make of. I am not giving Butler a pass or putting the blame on MT but I feel this was MT's call as to how to run the D, JMO!

    I feel the Steelers had a game plan and never changed it. Whoever was responsible for this needs a lesson and look at how it worked out, not just this game but every Pat's game. I think this defense came a long way for us to say fire this guy or fire that guy, we just need to learn out lesson here and move on. There are hole as far as pass coverage and I hope we get some talent in the draft to help that, but I am not on the fire anyone bandwagon! I might have been Sunday night after the game but I was a tad emotional...........
     
  25. Jammasterc

    Jammasterc Well-Known Member

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    I watched some post game locker room player interviews.
    Some of the Defense said they were shocked and not ready for the pace that the Patriots started with.

    What?
     

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