FIRE BRUCE ARIANS TOMORROW MORNING!

***Rodgers[/quote:35sdo681]

Yea that's what I meant LOL! Thanks Bobby

 

That pretty much sums it up.

 

Ben was on the field because he wanted to be on the field. A long with Ben, Tomlin made the decision that Ben would play.

The plan wasn't the issue. Like 8 times out of 10, the execution of the plan was the real problem. The Steelers moved the ball on the 9ners. Turnovers and penalties killed any momentum and scoring opportunities the offense had.

You assume running the ball would had taken a toll on the 49ers. If it is that simple, how come other teams can't use the formula every week to run well on the 9ers? The Steelers were not going to simply line up and run against the 9ners. Much of the rush success they had seemed to come out of the shot gun formation.

They were in a position to score points because of the passing game. More points are scored as a result of passing games. Move into the 21st century.

Ben didn't drop back almost 50 times. Most of his pass attempts came from the shoot gun.

It's the players job to score points. The coaches put the players in position to have success. Again, turnovers and penalties by the players on the field killed any chances the offense had to score points. It's a known fact that players can't make those kinds of mistakes in the NFL and expect to win games. I guess you missed many of the successful calls that happened vs the 9ners? I don't believe you watched the same game that I did.

Be careful if you ever become a HC some day. You can't simply or easily dismiss other coaches on staff over one or a few mistake. If you do dismiss coaches in that manner, you won't be a HC or leader of men very long.

 

changing the subject still doesn't make you right........

 

Arians isn't going anywhere unless he wants to. The team has been to two Super Bowls with him as OC. As a fan since 1975 I remember the 'old Steelers' so I'm not a big fan of the hybrid run-n-shoot playground... whatever it is Ben runs but it's what he likes to run and from what I've read lately, Ben has a Manning-like carte blanche kind of position on the team.

 

Where would you guys rank coach Lebeau as a def. coordinator? Top five I'm guesing. Now where would you rank BA ? nowhere near that I'm guessing. Year in and year out we are ranked top 5 on defense and middle of the road on offense,so this is where I'm ranking our coordinators. All the guys who support BA like to point to our offensive line as the reason why we cant be more effective on offense. I'm willing to bet that we all agree that our secondary ,maybe up to having its moments this year ,has been the target of our ire for a while now.So how is it that coach Lebeau is able to put a top 5 defense out on the field every year? I'll tell you why it's mostly because of his scheme. How many times have you heard a steeler defensive player praise Lebeau for his scheme and putting them in the right position to succeed? This has been my biggest complaint about BA he doesn't do that.No he doesn't throw picks,fumble or get called for penalties how could he possibly,he's not on the field,duh! What he does do is call ridiculous plays at the improper time,its called situational football and he sucks at it. Now if you want to sit there and blame Ben,well maybe he changed the play or he threw to the wrong man then it's still up to BA to reel him in.The reason why he doesn't is because Ben is probably the reason why he still has his job. I'm sure BA may be the master at drawing plays up in the dirt that theoretically in a perfect world should work,but this isn't the matrix.Sometimes you may need to adjust your thinking or your plan based on reality. Some of us don't live in that world. Get it through your heads folks we are middle of the road on offense,make all the excuses you want ,but bottom line is it's unacceptable with the talent we have on offense.He needs to make it work with what we have,we can't cut our whole offense and we dont have time to rebuild it all in the draft. Make it happen or find someone who can. With all the recycling that goes on in this league with coaches if BA was so brilliant ,how come his name is never mentioned for any vacancies??? BA has no relation to me and I'm sorry if i have offended anyone with whom he may.Like I've said before the NFL is a business and I'm sure he has made plenty of money in this league,more than you or I will probably ever see. No hard feelings Bruce but its shape up or ship out.

 

There are more talented players on the defensive side of the ball then the offensive side of the ball. It's been that way for years. Any success coaches have is mostly because of the players. I believe that players win in the NFL. I believe the QB's inconsistent style of play is the biggest reason why they haven't been a top 5 scoring offense. Ben's not the type of QB that throws for 30+ TD's. Ben fails to execute passes when the coverage and windows gets tighter in the red zone. If Ben threw for 9 more TD's this season, that would place him at 30. 30 TD's would rank the Steelers scoring offense in the top 5 at this point of the season.

Ben is the type of player that helps the Steelers win. Unfortunately, that's not good enough for some fans. I don't think much will change in regard to Ben's style of play if they bring in a new OC. Keep in mind that a new OC may be more of a dictator. It seems that Ben didn't like playing under an OC that was a dictator. I don't believe reeling players in works in today's NFL. I don't think any grown man takes being reeled in well. What usually seems to happen is a lot of animosity between any parties involved. Ben is a multi-million dollar player that helped this team win 2 SB's doing it his way. Fans need to get use to that. If they don't, these same complaints about the offense will continue to surface over and over.

I can care less if BA goes or stays. They can fire him for all I care. I believe the next OC or Tomlin will be the most criticized person in the orgazation. I know Steelers fan's history of criticisms well.

 

Good points and well stated.Look I just want to win as much as the next guy.If tomorrow morning Arians wakes up and all his philosophies and ideas start to work for and with this team then he will be my hero. It's nothing personal against the guy,but somehow or some way we just need to be better,PERIOD.

 

Well said and couldn't agree more !

 

On the 1st. drive we used the run and the PA pass to move the ball,we get down to the 20 yard line and go pass happy to the wrong guy from the wrong sets to the exact wrong place on the field.....As Coach T stated we can't help the 49rs with turn overs and we went right into their strengyh with a predictable play......So yes if my OC did this over and over he would be fired.....His job was to coach Ben to look for the TE'S and look for the check downs to the outer part of the field.....Watch chalk Talk DJ was open and he usually is along with our other TE'S on those types of plays......Mendenhall was good for at least a 5 yard gain on the checkdown had it been a designed swing pass from the same look he probably scores.....

Worst case we get 2nd. and 5 from the 15 or the RB scores or the TE has the ball around the 8,,,,,all of which keep the 3 points in play at least....This is situational Football at it's best....Basically we did the same type of thing 2 more times when other ,better options are open....I blame the OC because it is his job to design the play and call the play at the right time.....It is also his job to practice the play and teach Ben what we are looking for on those plays......Who is the primary read?Where is the 1 on 1 coverage?Who will have the mismatch?And most Importantly don't force a throw into a bad spot and take points off the board......
Nothing is ever said to Ben for making these mistakes because Ba thinks it's O.K. obviously.....Ben could be Rogers like if he had a Coach who was willing to Coach,,,all BA does is allow Ben to play sand lot Football this will not work consistantly against a good Defensive game plan....BA has held Ben and this Team back for far to long....
You talk like I don't like to pass ,,,,as I have stated many times I love the pass if designed correctly and if practiced correctly and if the reads and progressions are taught correctly....I also love the use of PA to create extra space to throw the Football,,,and by the way Ben is ranked #2 in completion percentage when using the PA pass behind only Rogers.....The problem is still the same we use PA at near the bottom of the NFL,,,Rogers has like 60 more PA attempts than Ben.....Again the fault of the OC it is his JOB to force the PA pass into the scheme and into practice time.....

Look at the play the 49rs. hit to the TE it is on chalk talk as well....They used the motion to find the 1 on 1 coverage they had the route tree designed to Move the single high Safety to the other side it is clear they had practiced this play and this gave Alex all the confidence in the world to make the throw as he could throw it to where his guy gets it or nobody because of the design and the timing of the call.....
They did this over and over........Where is that from us???Non existent week in and week out..Ben has to play sand lot and make perfect throws because that's the way we are coahed and it has cost us way to much.....

 

I think much of our issue is tunnel vision. BA and Ben are both, lets throw it down the field guys. I think a majority of our plays are designed to be WR as the first option. There are games where we just need to realize that they are giving us something else. Give Miller 15 catches if you have to. Eventually they will have to take him away, and something will open up for Wallace or Brown.

Let me also say, I argued in my draft preview a couple of weeks ago, that the Steelers needed to draft a WR. I am more certain of that now than ever. Battle will not see the field in this capacity. Ward is less than reliable. Sanders has been hurt. If you are running all of your plays to your WR as your first option and you only have 2 they are removing them as an option. Wallace was open a couple of times where Ben missed him. Brown dropped one he should have had. The reality is that if Cotchery leaves we don't have a backup WR that we can trust any more. I want BA to plan about 20 targets for Ward over the last 2 games. Let's get him to 1000.

 

Also to the part that Ben was on the field because Ben wanted to be on the field and Tomlin agreed.....It is the job of the OC to show the HC our best option is the running game and the use of the PA pass.....It is the job of both Coaches to sit a player who in not physically ready to play.....The only reason that BA wants Ben to start is his Love of the passing game.....

The running game was there as well as the check downs to the TE'S and RB'S ....So as you eluded to a QB who could get under Center would open this game plan up even more....Batch would have been more than capable handing it off and taking the check downs off of PA .....Had we done that we would have 1 the game,,I have no doubt....

Both BA and Tomlin should feel bad for forcing the wrong decision and allowing the player to decide if he plays or not.....That's just a part of what's wrong with this O ...Letting the QB run the Team,,,Ben is not Peyton and he never will be unless he gets a real OC who teaches him how to be an elite QB...It starts with pracice as I stated above ....Don't practice sand lot Football rather practice your plays and routes against every possible look so when you get those looks in the game the Team knows who will be open where they will become open and why they are getting open.......

 

Dont get it twisted its not just Arians its Ben and Arians together. Ben is a Gamer, but he is not Peyton Manning out there who is basically an offensive mastermind.

Arians will not be fired. Ben likes him and they will Cater to Ben. Ben makes some bad audibles or play calls sometimes too.

Best bet to have somethings change on offense is the draft some road maulers and force Bruce's hand to run more.....

 

I agree about it's Ben and Arians fault,,,,but I place most of the blame on the OC.....As stated it is the job of the OC to design plays that have a high chance of success....If you take the last game for example ,,Ben would not have plays on his wrist that have designed throws deeper down the middle....Anyone who watches the tape knows this is the area that San Fran gets there picks.....

So BA still keeps the resonsibility of Ben going to a play like that,,,as such a play should have never made it to the Stadium in the 1st. place.....This is why we need a good OC soomeone who forces the D to do something they are not use to doing...The game plan was simple run the ball hit the PA underneath to the TE'S and throw quick hitters to the RB'S and force them out of the mid to deep zones they Love to run....At which point they would have to go some man /zone and simply use motion to find the open guy and get him open outside the hash marks away from the Safety help....

All of this should have been practiced and the plan should have been ready whether Ben could go or not it is clear either we didn't do it or we threw the plan out the window once Ben decided he was going to play.....

 

Yep, damn straight I am JD86 from the old board. Good, lol, because I could care less whether you agree with anything I post or not. You are exactly the type of person who I was referring to in my previous post.

 

I agree totally. I was wondering if anyone else has notice the plays we are calling. The only play that I thought was well-designed by the steelers was the 20 yard out route to Brown in the Bengals or Browns game where he toe-tap the side lines..

 

You got that right.

But Peyton is Peyton because he studies tape like his middle name is "Scotch"

But I have to disagree with you about BA. LeBeau's defense is consistently top-notch because he puts them in the right position to make the play. The defender still has to actually make the play. BA draws up plays that give Ben open receivers, but Ben CHOOSES to ignore short crossing routes and checkdowns in favor of throwing into double coverage because it's a 30 yard bomb that will look good on a highlight reel.

 

Here is something else to chew on.

I went back 10 years, the 5 years of BA and the 5 previous, and looked at the Steelers average PPG per year on offense. I included this years number thru 14 games.

In the 5 years of BA, offensively they score an average of 21.2 ppg.

In the previous 5 years?

20.6

As bad as BA's offense are at scoring points, they actually outscore the years prior to him becoming OC.

Further, if you compare the two previous OC's, during that span (actually going back 11 years to encompass the Mularkey years), you find that under Whisenhunt they averaged 21.5 ppg and 19.9 ppg under Mularkey.

As bad as BA is, he's better than Mularkey and only .3 ppg worse than Whiz.

 

hey JD good to see you here....don't you think diehard is a troll?

 

yes but in those years we controlled a lot more the clock with a good running game , right now we are build as a high score passing team ,but we have a big redzone problems

 

Thats the perception.

But the reality is that the Steelers actually control the clock better under Arians.

In his 5 years the Steelers have never finished worse than 5th in the league in Time of Possession.

In the previous four years only once did they finish better than 5th.

Under Arians the Steelers average 32:14 per game.

In the previous 4 years, they averaged 31:48 per game.

Research for yourselves:
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/average-time-of-possession-net-of-ot

Now, let me ask this of the Arians bashers:

Were you guys calling for Ken Whisenhunts head back in 2005 and 2006? Or were you happy with him?

Answer honestly, because I remember a VERY STRONG contingent of fans who wanted him as Bill Cowhers heir.

 

Great series of posts.

 

In the issue of fairness, the average TOP under Whisenhunt was 32:08 per game, compared to 32:14 for Arians.

But still, the fact remains that Arians averages .3 ppg less than Arians and controls the clock a few seconds per game longer than KW, yet BA is reviled and KW is revered.

 

I don't really hate BA. I just dont understand his play calling sometimes. We've had much worse OCs (Ray Sherman anybody??). It does seem that maybe he and Ben are too close. That's not all bad but when Ben needs to reigned in a liitle, wouldn't it make it harder for BA to do? Just a guess.
I do remember all those years in the '90s when we were playing well, it seemed like other teams were looking to hire our coaches. But nobody has come asking for BA. What does that say?

 

really i thought when we had a running game going we were controlling a lot more the clock if the number are that even wiz was not a solution , i mean i would like to have a more creative of coach than arians, but i'm not sure is the 100%part of the issue . the oline is another big part and ben could be another one also .not to talk about the adjiustament . sure the problem is more complex than only ba