1. Hi Guest, Registrations are now open. See you on the inside.
    Dismiss Notice

Edge Rushers - So Far

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by Steel_Elvis, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

    15,299
    4,325
    Nov 4, 2011
    Here's my take on edge rushers for whom I've watched at least 3-5 games. Note that I did not watch much of Myles Garrett, Derek Barnett and Solomon Thomas because of where we're drafting.

    Round 1 - Takk McKinley - If it weren't for his surgery, I would consider him a Top 15 pick. He is still learning, but he has everything you want in an edge guy - burst, bend, long arms to disengage and knock down passes, power to set the edge and relentless effort on every step. He improved a lot last season if you compare the early season games to late season games - and he played those late season games impaired by the shoulder injury that he just had surgery on. He's going to be really good. Good enough that he'll be known by NFL fans by the nickname "Takk." I'd trade up to get him if his recovery checks out medically just before the draft.

    Round 1 - TJ Watt - He is not the classic twitchy edge rusher, and may never be a dominating arc bender. However, in my view he does everything else very well, and is just now learning the position. He uses his hands well, he stays where he needs to be when rushing, and doesn't get run past the QB or taken to the ground. While he may not be the kind of guy who gets those instant 2 second sacks by blowing by a tackle, I would expect him to get a lot of 3 and 4 second sacks because of his tenacity, discipline and the savvy that I expect him to develop. He defends the run. He can drop into coverage. I think he's going to be a really good NFL player. I think Mike Mayock's comparison of him to Clay Matthews is pretty accurate. He's a chess piece who will be able to do a lot in addition to rushing the passer. That's worth Pick #30 to me.

    Round 2 - Charles Harris - I love some of his tape, and I hate some of his other tape. He clearly has the ability, physically, to dip his shoulder and blow up a tackle around the edge. He also shows a really nice spin move on occasion (that I think he should use more often). The question is desire. Sometimes he's playing hard, and sometimes he looks like he's just there. His run defense is suspect. I am also not yet convinced that he has the lateral agility to play from a stand-up position and have to cover a guy in the flat or drop to a zone. The negatives that I saw seem to coincide mostly with teams that do a lot of RPO stuff out of spread formations, so he may be a guy who flourishes as an NFL pass rusher where the run/pass read is usually more well defined at the snap. A risk, but there is raw talent and he has had production against SEC left tackles.

    Round 2 - Carl Lawson - I like a lot of his tape, but his injury history and lack of length are concerning. He looks like a guy who will be able to help as a situational edge rusher Day 1, but will he ever be a solid starter? I'm not so sure.

    Round 2 - Tyus Bowser - I like this guy's long-term potential, but I think his immediate fit is as a SAM in a 4-3. He plays the game like more like an LB than an edge rusher. He is solid against the run, but very raw and limited rushing the passer. His coverage is perhaps the best I've ever seen in a 3-4 edge prospect coming out of school, and again shows more of a fit as a true LB than an edge guy. He played basketball at Houston, and he looks like he's guarding basketball players on the court by sticking close to guys in man coverage and picking up guys who enter his zone in zone coverage. He plays like he truly "gets" both man and zone coverage concepts. If his edge rush potential can be developed, he can be a complete 3-4 OLB in the mold of Melvin Ingram. However, the edge ability may never manifest to the level. Good player overall.

    Round 3 - Derek Rivers - There are now 4 of his games on draft breakdown, and each one is disappointing for at least 80-90% of his snaps. This guy clearly has the measurables to be good, and his production in terms of sacks is very good. However, when I watch him over the course of a full game I see a guy who is usually lost and unsure of where the ball is. It's ridiculously easy to trick him with misdirection or get a running play around him on the edge. You occasionally see that upfield burst to get a sack, but on passing downs he's usually neutralized easily by an FCS right tackle (he has ONLY played the left side of the defense going up against RTs). On running plays, I have seen him get dominated by FCS tight ends. Is this a guy who will come alive with good coaching, or is he going to always be a "look like Tarzan, play like Jane" kind of player? I wouldn't touch him before our 3rd round comp pick.

    I need to watch more of Tim Williams, Ryan Anderson and Vince Biegel next. I watched a couple of Jordan Willis' games, and dismissed him as a 4-3 end only.
     
  2. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

    5,418
    684
    Oct 23, 2011
    Are we all too sour on Tim Williams? Where does he end up going?

    His failed drug tests are certainly an issue but I agree with those that don't even think he is an every down player.

    He is a pass rush specialist. Kind of like Bruce Irvin.

    But, if Tim Williams can be used as a situational pass rusher and give you 8 sacks a year on limited snaps, what's that worth? The #30 pick?

    I'd personally like to avoid him but if he is there at #30, and some of the notable guys are off the board, could be tough to pass up.
     
  3. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

    15,299
    4,325
    Nov 4, 2011
    I have yet to watch enough tape of Williams to have a view on him as a prospect, but I can say that when I watched Alabama play last season (probably 3 or 4 games), Anderson was the guy that stood out to me, not Williams. I'm hoping to have time to watch at least 3-5 games of both guys soon.
     
  4. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

    5,418
    684
    Oct 23, 2011
    Watch his first step. Might be the best in the draft. As I said lots of holes in his game. Not a complete player.
     
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

    27,703
    5,277
    Oct 22, 2011
    i really want to like rivers but when i watch him the give up early on the play effort really sticks out to me. moss on the other side of him gives the effort but isn't as talented. i think moss has made rivers look better funneling plays his way at times making rivers lack of effort turn into more stats.

    carroll phillips is a guy that has been pretty consistant to me and the more i see the more i think he may become the better fit opposite a guy like bud. he's a guy that didn't have a lot around him. he to me could be or turn into a better pro than college player. just trying to envision him in our defense more than just his college tape and i think he could be a guy to look closer at.

    i like beigel and watt for sure but as i have said the two inside guys for that team are quite good too, which makes everyone else better and visa versa. the group as a whole may make guys look better than they would be as individuals. how would they work in our defense is the question. knowing the system is big but are we creating another jarvis jones situation? i wouldn't mind the whole wisconsin group here at some point.

    tons to factor into any of these pass rushers. no clear cut canidate without reservations. :cool:
     
  6. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

    13,841
    1,898
    Oct 18, 2011
    Ther is just something about Anderson that I like....throw all the 40 times and what not out the window with him. He plays faster n the field for sure....To me he is a football player and he gets it. He has a good combination of hand usage,leverage and power and I think the football smarts(situational) to go with it. Let him stay under the radar,if we could get him in the second I think he is better than what we will have left to choose from in the first. Which hopefully allows us to take BPA in the first at a couple positions. You never know who may fall....Hopefully the media keeps piling on Foster cause I'm sprinting to the podium for him...he and Shazier....Oh My!
     
  7. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

    15,299
    4,325
    Nov 4, 2011
    Per Steelers Depot, we are meeting with Takk! :dancing:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

    13,841
    1,898
    Oct 18, 2011
    Have a strong feeling he's the pick if he's there . He is only 20 years old and we like taking the younger players...plus we will have a in depth scouting report from their DC Tom Bradley who has strong ties with the PA area...Penn State most notably. I think if he gets his endorsement that's where we're going...not sure how I feel about it yet. I like his raw ability but it was a little put off by his football IQ during thecombine,he kept messing up the drills. I like many others here have been clamoring for smarter football players on this team.....you know...to offset the knuckleheads. Not really feeling any of the OLBs at 30:shrug:
     
  9. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

    15,726
    3,052
    May 9, 2012
    Personally I think you have Watt too high. I don't think a player with one year as a starter goes in the first. There's also his injury history to think about.
     
  10. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

    21,270
    5,117
    Apr 21, 2016
    Takks shoulder does scare me a bit.


    He did state his recovery is going better than expected though. Even so, not 100% certain what one will get when he is coming bacl from injury.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. turtle

    turtle

    8,542
    1,375
    Jan 14, 2015
    I think Takk is the guy if he's there at 30. If not then Lawson, I just don't think MT, KC and Porter go to the pro day for someone they view as a second rounder. I could be wrong. If we are to believe the reports that Watt is not on their radar for the first round, then maybe a trade out of the first will be in place as much as a gamble that is.

    I don't think Harris is a first rounder or Rivers. I really think its down to two at the OLB position. Takk and Lawson. I like Takk much better and view Lawson as a early 2nd but the presence at his pro day is what is driving my belief in their interest.
     
  12. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

    27,407
    6,623
    Nov 14, 2011
    I don't like Williams besides the off field stuff, we don't need another pothead getting suspended. I saw Williams at the combine he looked too skinny, to be a effective OLB in the NFL.
     
  13. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

    27,703
    5,277
    Oct 22, 2011
  14. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

    5,790
    469
    May 26, 2012
    If Watts is still on the board at 29 the packers will draft him, there are some players like Antonio Gates who were never drafted and never played a single game in college who have had great careers in the NFL, and some players who had loads of college playing time and were first round busts, but Watt has so much upside he will go in the first round....
     
  15. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

    7,866
    969
    Oct 22, 2011
    Yeah I'm worried about Rivers being a "Workout Warrior" guy and not a guy who is going to show up on Sundays.

    Also my question is, is he a true 3-4 OLB? Might be a better 4-3 fit?
     
  16. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

    8,604
    1,333
    Dec 10, 2012
    I don't get the love here for Takk, I watched my 3rd game on him vs Utah and I don't see anything that shows he is special. In the Utah game he got a sack early, he ran right by the OT who was still in his stance and was untouched. He is fast I give him that but other than that burst I don't see any other move he had. All 3 games I saw the same result, he locks up with the OT and he goes nowhere. He does have a high motor and follows the play, I will give him that.

    I know there are a few guys here that are very high on him and I respect all your opinions but I just don't see what is so special about this kid. No disrespect just trying to find out what I am missing cause there are some knowledgeable people here and their opinion hold weight with me. jmo
     
  17. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

    15,726
    3,052
    May 9, 2012

    True, but that doesn't mean a guy with surgeries to both knees and has only started one season will be a success. I think too many people have bought into the name thinking he's automatically going to be jj part 2. We need serious help at olb. The massive whiff on Jarvis Jones and to some extent the abrupt retirement of Worilds has left us in a major bind. We have Dupree who needs to take a huge jump in year 3 and a 40 yo year old Harrison. If they go olb in round 1 it has to be a home run.
     
  18. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

    5,418
    684
    Oct 23, 2011
    I watched the UCLA-Utah game this morning.

    I do like Takk. I think he is a solid 3-4 OLB, late 1st/early second.

    I am starting to think I liked him a little more during the season than I do now. Not that he had a bad combine, it was ok, but he's not as explosive as I thought he was.

    He looks more comfortable coming off the left side of the defense. If Dupree keeps playing LOL for us, then really we should be looking for a ROLB to replace Harrison.

    Takk has good size, long arms and pretty good speed. I think the initial explosion is a little lacking and may be a bit stiff.

    When he was playing ROLB vs Utah, he did not look good at all. Now alot of that has to do with he was locked up with Garrett Bolles, who I have as the clear #1 OT. Bolles fed him his lunch all day.

    I think that's concerning. Go check Jarvis Jones make DJ Fluker look like a child in the Georgia-Bama game from a few years ago. JJ wasn't able to put it together at the NFL level.

    I do think there are some red flags regarding Takk for us at #30.
     
  19. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

    8,604
    1,333
    Dec 10, 2012
    My problem is I watched the Az. St game and the Stanford game too and I see the same thing every time. SteelCity you say that he was going against Bolles in the Utha game, to me that tells me what he is capable of vs NFL talent. I want to like this guy cause I have a feeling he is going to be our #1 pick but I can't find anything to get excited about...... jmo
     
  20. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

    41,499
    8,939
    Oct 16, 2011
    Bloodlines has something to do with it, sure, certainly doesn't hurt but film and measurable's are more of it. He only has 1 full season as a starter but played 13 games as a backup, too. Even still, thats not a bad thing, thats not beginners luck, he'll just continue to improve, IMO. I think whoever gets him will have a heck of a player.

    As for injuries, who knows, I didnt want Mosely because of injuries and he's played just about every game so far. And the guy we took, Shazier, has been battling injuries. You never know.
     
  21. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

    5,790
    469
    May 26, 2012
    Good news is Those who suffered their original ACL tear in college have only a 2 percent chance of tearing it again...........
     
  22. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

    5,418
    684
    Oct 23, 2011
    Watching some Charles Harris tape. Man, what he does good, he does REALLY good.

    I think he plays with alot of great technique. Can run the arc. Lots of good tape of him stunting inside.

    I had him as a 2nd round grade pre-Combine. I remember being horrified by his combine numbers. Those numbers don't seem to match up with what's on tape.

    I know Peezy wad at his pro day. Possible selection at #62? Assuming we go DB in round 1.
     
  23. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

    15,726
    3,052
    May 9, 2012

    According to sports reference he only played in 8 games with 3 solo tackles(7 total) and 0 sacks. If you want to go all in on a one hit wonder then by all means feel free. I prefer to rely on a proven consistent track record.
     
  24. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

    15,726
    3,052
    May 9, 2012

    According to the American Journal of Sports Medicine it's actually 10% and jumps to 20 something within the first 24 months.
     
  25. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

    8,604
    1,333
    Dec 10, 2012

Share This Page

Welcome to the ultimate resource for Steelers fans. Sign Up Here!