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Dupree vs Hargrave

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by cajunyankee, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    Decision time is around the corner. We cannot keep both and cannot lose both!

    I’m interested in how Steeler Nation feels about each player and the the Teams future.

    Who is your choice and why? Make a case why you choice is the best direction the team should go.

    I choose Hargrave! First off he’s cheaper and we’re pressed for cap space. Secondly the game is still controlled by the Lines ( OLine & DLine ) And despite optics the NFL success stories are of the teams that run the ball better than anyone else. Yes, the run game has returned and a solid DLine is its first and best defense.

    Cajun
    <><
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    Love hargrave, but don’t think the price tag is worth it for someone that only plays 30% of the snaps. That number went up this year due to Tuitt’s injury and was still only 40%. His production is easier to replace with a late round selection.

    I disagree about only being able to keep one. Kahn has always been very good at manipulating the numbers. If we want to keep both we will find a way
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Hargrave for me. Dupree had a good season, but Hargrave has been a solid, though underappreciated, player since Day 1. I have more confidence in Hargrave being great next year and beyond.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Cajun in that Hargrave is the one to focus on if we can't do both. I feel you will keep getting production from Hargrave as we have been. DuPree is a big question mark. It took 5 yrs to be worth his draft status and finally after all this time he has one season that is productive and by coincidence his final rookie contract year looking for the big payday. I don't buy that. We sign him with lots of cash and I think he goes back to the DuPree we've seen for 80% of his time here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. BK99

    BK99 Well-Known Member

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    Hargrave is who the team should focus on keeping. Bud had a really good season but you have to ask yourself if he was playing in "desperation mode" this season and will that level of play continue? I think Bud has value but not the amount of money he is going to get from another franchise, if anything he owes the Steelers a discount for his first 4 years.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I would keep Dupree, the tandem of him and Watt was the best OLB duo in the league in 2019. They had 26 sacks and played the run well also, it would be easier to find another NT than a good OLB.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
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  7. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    It would take some serious wizardry with the cap to keep both given they are right up against it and the new 30% rule prevents them from using their usual method of pushing money in to later years. It’s a stretch to keep one of them, never mind both.

    If they are keeping one with a view towards a championship run in 2020 then it has to be Dupree. Tuitts return will mitigate the loss of Hargrave and they can take a NT in the draft or free agency relatively cheaply. Alualu is also under contract and offers dependable cover at the DT position, maybe Buggs takes a step forward too. Replacing Dupree would be much much more difficult. They have virtually nothing behind him, rookie pass rushers take time to adjust to the NFL and they can’t afford a decent free agent at OLB while also signing Hargrave to a big extension.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Chainmover1

    Chainmover1 Well-Known Member

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    Every 5 years or so I check out the mocks. They are saying Dupree is gone. This was surprising to me[pleasantly I might add].

    There was some action on the DL but 4th rd or later. But frankly Hargraves estimated 14,000,000 market value has priced him out. As good as he was last year they really need a Steed or Hampton in the middle. Find one!

    Now many mocks had TE at 50. So they also think McDonald is gone too. It looks like the are cleaning house and I agree.

    But if one is kept I also prefer Hargraves. Incidently, he played 62% and got better as the season progressed.
    From footballoutsiders

    Player ------------AGE--------------------------DSnaps---DS%-----------------
    97-C.Heyward PIT 30 DL 997 0 0.0% 885 80.5% 112 26.0%

    79-J.Hargrave PIT 26 DL 696 0 0.0% 692 62.9% 4 0.9%

    94-T.Alualu --- PIT 32 DL 506 1 0.1% 440 40.0% 65 15.1%
    91-S.Tuitt ---- PIT 26 DL 314 0 0.0% 282 25.6% 32 7.4%
    93-D.McCullers PIT 27 DL 193 0 0.0% 132 12.0% 61 14.2%
    96-I.Buggs== PIT 23 DL 77 0 0.0% 75 6.8% 2 0.5%
    95-L.Walton= PIT 27 DL 0 0 0.0% 0 0.0% 0 0.0%
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  9. CK 13

    CK 13 Well-Known Member

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    First with this cap situation both cannot be kept. Just imagine Big Dan your starting nose. Take a moment...
    Some say their is no one behind Alvin. I will take any bet that anyone behind him won't take 4 years to wake up.
    16mil with the uncertainty of Ben, a struggling offensive line, virtually no tight ends, question marks at running back, no true #1 receiver and pressed up against the cap. Oh and on Defense a MLB. All for a one year wonder which is questionable if you really looked at his full body of work.

    They will end up franchising Dupree. They will scrape up a few bottom feeder free agents for fill in. They best hit it up in this draft.

    Hargrave would be my choice.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    I take grave digger already discussed it in other posts.
     
  11. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Neither. Take the money and extend watt and Fitzpatrick now before the price skyrockets. They are the core. You sign finney, feiler and banner. Protect your old qb.

    draft and play fotu and baun.

    :cool:
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    There isn't anyone behind Dupree. More importantly, he actually plays most of the snaps. Even with Tuitt out, Hargrave was on the bench far too often. If that is how they are going to use him, if not even less when Tuitt is able to play, no way is he worth a big contract.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    You don't extend a contract like Fitzpatrick this early, he has 2 more years then they can pick up his 5th year option. They can do Watt in 2021, he's just going to have to wait.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    The Steelers are paying Tuitt and Heyward around $10 million or more each, no way are they going to pay another DL like Hargrave that kind of money.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    I'd take Dupree. Pass rushers are harder to come by than interior lineman.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    And get more expensive and then a much better chance of losing them. Could be a new cba by then. :cool:
     
  17. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    IMO there’s only 2 options. Tag him or let him go. We’re going to pay Dupree 16mil. for multiple seasons when Watts market will probably be close to 20mil. by the time he needs a new deal? So 36mil for 2 players and we wouldn’t spend around the same to keep our DL intact with Hargrave (3 players )? We were able to overcome the loss of Tuitt by Hargrave and Alualu stepping up. Alualu is a year older and if something were to happen to Tuitt again,which isn’t out of the realm of possibility,then we’re gonna find out how valuable Hargrave is.
     
  18. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    I guess it depends on what the plan is for the next season or two. If Ben is playing, you load up right now and suffer the consequences later. In a couple years, we might be looking down the barrel of a qb-less gun.

    If you are rebuilding, then think about the future. If you are riding Ben to a possible championship, the future is now.
     
  19. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    this. although what are the chances bud becomes woodley? lol

    If i was the GM I would pay Watt anything he wants, he has proven himself on and off the field. Another Heath Miller caliber player
     
  20. Disco1981

    Disco1981 Well-Known Member

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    Idea...If we sign Hargrave, With Tuiit coming back...Now you could cut, Alualu ( Who I love but ) Foster, Chick, and Barron...

    Then you could maybe sign both Gravedigger and Bud
     
  21. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    https://www.si.com/.amp-steelers/nfl/steelers/gm-report/javon-hargave-market-value-2020

    Let’s remember, Heyward is a beast but entering the backend of his career. Tuitt is a beast but can’t play an entire season. Alualu is steady yet he barely made the roster this year, one more year at best .

    Buggs is promising yet unproven!

    Hargrave is Proven! His efficiency numbers as an interior DL are better than Aaron Donald and Chris Jones!!!! Hargrave is is just starting to scratch the surface in getting stronger and more moves.

    Hargrave is also versatile .... NT! 3-4 DE!!!
    Nickel/Dime package DL and he has done it since day one when called upon....

    Dupree is a one year wonder!!! Happy for him but worried he can’t or won’t sustain it and we still have to extend Watt next year!!

    Cajun
    <><
     
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    • Agree Agree x 2
  22. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    we don't have the money to load up. Father time is undefeated. Sure we are better with Ben on paper just because he is a vet and takes less coaching at this point but unless we make some major changes and hard decisions on some aging favorites we may be putting way too much stock in his abilities at this stage. We just however keep the core of this defense to compete now and in the future.

    Ben needs a go to. That's how he operates. McDonald is the closest guy to that right now. We need to sign up watt and spend the dupree/hargave money on a go to wr. Then the other 3 will give Ben his comfort level he desires. Watt will make the other olb better. You keep Barron around and start playing UG3 more in the rotation. Barron will help Bush and UG3 much more then Vince ever will. Sure up the fb spot. Sign vannett. Let's see what he can do with Ben throwing to him. Fix the oline. :cool:
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  23. CanadianSteel

    CanadianSteel Well-Known Member

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    It's a tough call, but I lean towards Hargrave because he has been so consistent and a lot of the value he brings, goes unnoticed. My problem is the amount of snaps he gets... With Tuitt back, is he going to be getting 50%? Maybe less? Can't drop a huge contract on a player with those numbers. Maybe after seeing his versatility this season, they'd up his playing time and the big money would make sense?
     
  24. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    Numbers can be misleading.... while we run a 3-4 base we run nickel/dime sub-packages more than base.

    First 5 games ( before Tuitt’s injury, gm 5 vs the Ravens ) Snap counts were : Heyward had 52(74%), 58(74%), 56(71%), 36(55%), and 68(86%)!!!
    Tuitt had- 46(66%), 55(71%) , 52(66%), 52(79%) and 68(86%)!!!!
    Hargrave had- 26(37%), 37(47%), 46(58%), 26(39%), 39(49%)!!!

    Heyward ended the season with 873 Def snaps and 112 ST snaps..... Tuitt only 278 in 5 gms..... Hargrave ended with 680 def snaps and the old man Alualu ended with 432.........

    We need Hargrave for that Solid 3-4 DL as his numbers prove he is a beast too plus in rotation in the sub-packages giving relief to Heyward and Tuitt keeping all three fresh especially in late season Push and post season play!!!

    Alualu is about to be gone and we can’t wear out Heyward as he gets older!!

    His contract does seem too large but with the cap increasing it isn’t bad value wise!

    Cajun
    <><
     
  25. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    They can tag one of them, Ben $34 million will be off the books by then.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1

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